Are we going about this the right way??

pops5588

Hi, currently a FTB with my OH. Would really appreciate some advice on our situation.

Basically, found a house, viewed a few times, got the seal of approval from parents, got our AIP, put an offer in on wednesday last week. It's on at £179,950 and our offer was £167,000. On friday it got rejected with a short and sweet no. There wasn't any hint of negotiation or anything so we are struggling a bit with how to respond.

Is the following an acceptable response?

Having taken a few days to think and discuss the situation, we have decided to put in an increased offer of £169,000 on the B******* house. Along with the offer, we would appreciate it if you could convey the following points to the vendor on our behalf:

1) This property was only purchased 3 years ago for £162,000, and we do not believe the housing market has not grown as such to justify an £18,000 inflation on price, nor have £18,000 worth of improvements been made to the property.

2) No other property on this road has come close to going for the price that the vendor is asking. There is one literally just opposite which is end of terrace and not against a train track for just under £165,000.

3) We are in a good position ie. chain free.

4) We know that the house has been on the market for a good few months and have been told that the main reason for lack of further interest appears to be the "state" of the house. We like the house, but this issue does still stand. We would need to invest time and money into this property and this would appear to be an accepted fact by most people who have viewed this property.

5) We are saying here and now that we won't be offering the asking price. We are very much prepared to walk away from this property if we have to. We are not on a deadline, are in no rush and are prepared to wait for a property at the right price. We hope that the vendor will take on board that we are in an ideal situation for them, as they have not yet located a house to move into and we would be happy to proceed at their pace.

6) The only response that we had from our previous offer was "no". If we are nowhere near the ballpark figure that he has in mind for the sale of this property then please let us know and we will continue with our house search elsewhere.


I look forward to hearing from you soon.


I have done a lot of reading on these forums and I know there is no point asking on here what do you think the house is worth because ultimately the worth of a house is personal, I just want to know whether this is an acceptable response? Ultimately if the vendor is holding out for the asking price then we might as well walk away now. We are prepared to go up to £172,000 for it but that's it. But if we just get "no" in response we don't know if there is any point in continuing or not. Bit frustrating really.

Linton

The only point worth making is (3). You arent going to persuade someone to sell by a logical argument, you need to show them that it's in their interest to sell cheaper than they wanted to you. If you dont want further hassle but really like the house make your next move to the price you are prepared to pay as a final offer.

hazyjo

Absolutely agree with Linton - no point in pleading, making comparisons or judgements, you're best off just saying well, £X is our final offer - please get back to us asap with a yes or no and we'll have to continue our search if we don't get it.

Simple as that.

Jx

StuC75

Just stick to what your offer is.. The rest is quite irrelevent.

pops5588

Thanks to both of you. Just trying to fight that natural urge to justify every decision we make to the EA!!

We really don't want to get sucked into a bidding war especially as the property is on with 2 different EAs so we would never truly know what on earth is going on at the other end. Slightly suspect also that there has been barely an interest for 3 months and now suddenly oh would you look at that! Apparently someone else from the other EA is interested! What a miracle...

DizzyDasher

Hello!

Personally I would go in a bit more gently - your e-mail sounds a bit "pent up" - great to vent on here!! But if you sound too emotional the agent will think they've "got you" and will encourage the vendor to play hard ball on price.

In any case, if the vendors have an unrealistic price in their head then nothing will shift them. However, if they are willing to be reasonable then I think they are more likely to be helped there by some positive reasons why your price is a good one, rather than negative reasons why their price is wrong.

First I would phone the agent and just get the lie of the land: you are still interested in the house, but not at the asking price: is there any point in you submitting a further offer below asking price, or are they dead set on getting that? Can you get an idea of why (e.g. they need the money to pay off the mortgage, or to move to Australia, or they spent £10k on lilac wallpaper which has clearly increased the house value, or whatever!) If the agent says they won't budge for some random reason like this just let them know to come back to you if that changes and move on...

If the agent says there could be room for another offer "nearer the asking price" then I would just amend your e-mail a bit to make more of a "positive" case for your proposed price.

1) The fact they bought only 3 years ago is strong if you can back that up with some local house pricing index. For example, what is the current Zoopla valuation? What have recent house price reports said about price changes in your region in the last 3 years - have they been less than 4.3% (1% pa) which is what you are saying you think the house is worth? If you can say that your offer is in line with or even above that growth, that creates a great reason for the seller to accept it. However, if in fact you think they have just ruined the house, and therefore it hasn't gone up with the market, I would just scrap the comparison with their purchase price altogether (it will be a sore point) and use point 2 instead.

2) Other houses selling on the same street are clearly relevant comparators. I would mention the 165 away from the train track as a comparator. Have prices increased generally since then? If so, can you represent your offer as reflecting that general increase, but subtracting something for the rail noise? Or is there something else that is nicer about the house you are trying to buy, despite the rail line?

3) Definitely point out you are chain free (and raring to go - i.e. not stuck in a long rental contract?)

The other points about the state of the house and your willingness to walk away I would leave to one side. They sound a bit defensive, and as soon as you sound emotional as the seller I would think "aha, they really like this house!!" I would write it all trying to think of yourself as "professional business person" and try to ignore all the emotions attached (which is really hard, I know - been there!)

If it was me I would keep it short and say something like:

We do like the house at the right price, but are not interested at the asking price.
Here are the reasons why we think our offer is a good one (and then 1-3 above).

Please let us know the vendor's views ASAP as you are continuing to view other houses.

pops5588

DizzyDasher wrote: »

Hello!

Personally I would go in a bit more gently - your e-mail sounds a bit "pent up" - great to vent on here!! But if you sound too emotional the agent will think they've "got you" and will encourage the vendor to play hard ball on price.

In any case, if the vendors have an unrealistic price in their head then nothing will shift them. However, if they are willing to be reasonable then I think they are more likely to be helped there by some positive reasons why your price is a good one, rather than negative reasons why their price is wrong.

First I would phone the agent and just get the lie of the land: you are still interested in the house, but not at the asking price: is there any point in you submitting a further offer below asking price, or are they dead set on getting that? Can you get an idea of why (e.g. they need the money to pay off the mortgage, or to move to Australia, or they spent £10k on lilac wallpaper which has clearly increased the house value, or whatever!) If the agent says they won't budge for some random reason like this just let them know to come back to you if that changes and move on...

If the agent says there could be room for another offer "nearer the asking price" then I would just amend your e-mail a bit to make more of a "positive" case for your proposed price.

1) The fact they bought only 3 years ago is strong if you can back that up with some local house pricing index. For example, what is the current Zoopla valuation? What have recent house price reports said about price changes in your region in the last 3 years - have they been less than 4.3% (1% pa) which is what you are saying you think the house is worth? If you can say that your offer is in line with or even above that growth, that creates a great reason for the seller to accept it. However, if in fact you think they have just ruined the house, and therefore it hasn't gone up with the market, I would just scrap the comparison with their purchase price altogether (it will be a sore point) and use point 2 instead.

2) Other houses selling on the same street are clearly relevant comparators. I would mention the 165 away from the train track as a comparator. Have prices increased generally since then? If so, can you represent your offer as reflecting that general increase, but subtracting something for the rail noise? Or is there something else that is nicer about the house you are trying to buy, despite the rail line?

3) Definitely point out you are chain free (and raring to go - i.e. not stuck in a long rental contract?)

The other points about the state of the house and your willingness to walk away I would leave to one side. They sound a bit defensive, and as soon as you sound emotional as the seller I would think "aha, they really like this house!!" I would write it all trying to think of yourself as "professional business person" and try to ignore all the emotions attached (which is really hard, I know - been there!)

If it was me I would keep it short and say something like:

We do like the house at the right price, but are not interested at the asking price.
Here are the reasons why we think our offer is a good one (and then 1-3 above).

Please let us know the vendor's views ASAP as you are continuing to view other houses.

Thanks so much for that, really useful advice and pointers.

The only difference between the £165,000 house and this £179,950 house is that this house has a south-facing garden and two extra cupboards for storage. That's about it...

Ah the lengths we go to for a south-facing garden...

pops5588

Just an update if anyone is interested:

We put put forward a new offer of 171,000 as a final offer along with a much shortened, more positive outline of our reasoning behind it and about half an hour ago the offer was accepted!!!! Hooray!!!!

Now for the scary unknown bit...no clue what I'm doing...

hazyjo

Excellent Good luck!

Lots of advice can be found on here. Just get everything arranged asap! Solicitors and searches, mortgage, valuation and survey (prob through mortgage provider), then chase when necessary!

Check the chain is now complete before doing anything!

Jx

pops5588

The main thing concerning me at the moment is that the property was on with 2 estate agents. It is listed as Sold STC on the website of the one we are purchasing it through but is still listed as On Market with the other one. When I spoke to the EA he said that they were going to phone the other agent and take it off but...

When do I start being concerned about the fact they may be keeping it on the market with the other EA to see if they get a higher offer?

StuC75

Difficult to say really, since you are in England, then anything can happen right upto Exchanged ~ and completion.. Until you get the keys..

You may get a survey done and realise significant work is required and the seller not willing to negotiate so walk away...

pops5588 wrote: »

The main thing concerning me at the moment is that the property was on with 2 estate agents. It is listed as Sold STC on the website of the one we are purchasing it through but is still listed as On Market with the other one. When I spoke to the EA he said that they were going to phone the other agent and take it off but...

When do I start being concerned about the fact they may be keeping it on the market with the other EA to see if they get a higher offer?