Gina Ford: 4 months sleep regression or growth spurt?

Counting_Pennies_2

Are you looking after yourself well enough in the day?

Are you eating and drinking enough?

The reason I ask is that milk production in the day does go down if you are dashing about, and not getting enough food and drink in the day for yourself.

I wonder if the reason he is waking in the night is that your body is producing the better quality milk when you are resting.

The first milk of the day is often the better quality as your body has been able to focus solely on producing the milk.

If he is waking in the night and wanting interaction then I would question if he is getting too much sleep in the day. But if he is waking to feed then going straight back to sleep I wonder if it is what I suggest above

hth

pigpen

If he is hungry.. feed him!!! Would you like to be denied food?

But yes they have a growth spurt at about 4 months and the next is usually 5.5-6 months.. go with it.

BF babies need to feed during the night to boost the production of prolactin which increases you milk supply throughout the day.. it is produced in greatest quantities between 1-3am so this is usually when they wake. It will pass in a week or 2. Trust your instincts as his mother, no one knows your baby like you do, not a single person in the world.

Burn the book.. seriously.. GF is entitled to her opinion as I am entitled to mine.. abandoning an upset child or denying them food when they are hungry is not good parenting. If he rejects everything but milk and goes straight back to sleep he is hungry!

roses

Well the problem is that he takes himself off the breast and cries ie he doesn't continue sucking so obviously this doesn't stimulate my milk supply. This usually happens during the day between 2pm-8pm, never at night and not every day.

Since he started waking at night, I have fed him. He feeds well around 2/3am, not so much around 4/6am then another good feed at 8am.

pigpen wrote: »

If he is hungry.. feed him!!! Would you like to be denied food?

And I said earlier that if he shows signs of hunger then even though I have a daytime routine, I DO feed him. I don't leave my kid to starve.

pigpen wrote: »

BF babies need to feed during the night to boost the production of prolactin which increases you milk supply throughout the day.. it is produced in greatest quantities between 1-3am so this is usually when they wake.

Burn the book.. seriously.. GF is entitled to her opinion as I am entitled to mine.. abandoning an upset child or denying them food when they are hungry is not good parenting. If he rejects everything but milk and goes straight back to sleep he is hungry!

Since my baby was previously sleeping well and his weight gain was on track, let's just agreee to disagree here

valk_scot

roses wrote: »

Well the problem is that he takes himself off the breast and cries ie he doesn't continue sucking so obviously this doesn't stimulate my milk supply. This usually happens during the day between 2pm-8pm, never at night and not every day.

This is almost certainly because you're tired and your body isn't responding as well as it should. Frequent short feedings like this are exactly what stimulates your milk supply, but as I said it will need a week or so before your body adjusts. And it will take longer if you're not looking after yourself but instead dashing around trying to do housework.

The old fashioned advice here was to spend three or four days doing nothing except feed and rest to give your body the best chance of responding. Seriously, the ideal was to take the baby and yourself off to bed and someone else brought you meals and did the housework. I know it's unlikely your OH can take a week off and not everyone has a willing mum or sister to help out, but if can go halfway on this it will help. Get a Tesco delivery with easy cook but nutritious food, do just enough laundry to keep yourself in clothes and dump the rest, just sleep. I know I'm assuming that you do have a live in partner of course that's availible during the evenings and weekends to do the catchup work, also that they're willing, but it sounds like it's really necessary atm. If you're tired your body doesn't have the energy reserves to respond swiftly to your baby's demands for milk. Demand feeding is the way to go atm, that and lots of rest. You can get back into your routine when things settle down again.

Oh yes, and remember to drink lots of water. Not tea, coffee, fizzy drinks or stuff like that, water. If you get dehydrated you won't produce as much milk as you can either.

jenhug

I always find it odd that people listen to Ms Ford, she has no children and sues everyone that disagrees with her!

I knew a woman that almost had a nervous breakdown trying to follow that womans advice to the letter.

I would listen to Valk_scot. She always has excellent advise and I don't think I have ever known her to be wrong.

roses

Well to be honest, the routine is pretty much stuffed today . He woke up at 8am, slept 9-10.30am, 11.30-12.30pm and is now asleep again 1.30pm-3.30pm (I'm currently in Cyprus which is 2 hours ahead).

So I'll be feeding him on demand today. Poor little tyke must be exhausted.

koalamummy

jenhug wrote: »

I always find it odd that people listen to Ms Ford, she has no children and sues everyone that disagrees with her!

I knew a woman that almost had a nervous breakdown trying to follow that womans advice to the letter.

I would listen to Valk_scot. She always has excellent advise and I don't think I have ever known her to be wrong.

I actually find the woman and her crazy ideas dangerous. Please OP ignore this woman and her ramblings. Your baby is still very young and with time you will both settle into your own routine that works for both of you.

valk_scot

koalamummy wrote: »

I actually find the woman and her crazy ideas dangerous. Please OP ignore this woman and her ramblings. Your baby is still very young and with time you will both settle into your own routine that works for both of you.

I hope you mean Ms Ford, not me, lol! I may be crazy but I'm not dangerous!

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Treevo wrote: »

I shan't write what I think of Gina Ford's methods as the great cow does enjoy suing.

Mind you, the action was dropped before it was tested in court.

So nobody knows whether the defence of fair comment could be taken. You only have to look at the definition, which basically says as long as your opinion is based upon facts (such as, oh, I don't know, that prolonged periods of fasting has a negative effect upon breast milk production, which leads you to conclude that childcare methods that advocate restricting feeds contradict the WHO's recommendation that all infants are breastfed on demand?).

“Encourage breastfeeding on demand.”

Mothers of normal babies (including caesareans) who are breastfeeding should have no restrictions placed on the frequency or length of their babies’ breastfeeds. They should be advised to breastfeed their babies whenever they are hungry or as often as the baby wants and they should wake their babies for breastfeeding if the babies sleep too long or the mother’s breasts are overfull.

(The Global Criteria for the WHO/UNICEF Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative, 1992). '

'There is no evidence supporting the contrary practices of scheduled feeding and nursery care.' (Relating to demand feeding)

Both from: http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2004/9241591544_eng.pdf


Can't deny the combined intellect and sheer breadth of expertise from the World Health Organisation vastly outweighs one middleaged woman with just 12 years' experience and a knack for writing catchy titles that promise an end to your parenting worries.




It would have turned into a huge freedom of speech thing, spiralled into millions in legal costs, etc. So neither of them would have benefitted in the end.




Anyhow, OP, if the baby won't settle unless they have a feed, they're hungry. If they are so beside themselves that they can't latch on, perhaps it's because they've been left to cry for a little bit too long first. Once you go past the little mutterings, to the whimpers, leaving it until the full blown cry, they're all riled up, full of adrenaline and are quite likely to be too stressed to be able to settle down again - it would be like you being a little sad and calming down with a bit of tea and sympathy, or getting really, really upset and then expected to be quiet and get on with your meal.




In any case, enjoy your holiday!

Counting_Pennies_2

roses wrote: »

Well to be honest, the routine is pretty much stuffed today . He woke up at 8am, slept 9-10.30am, 11.30-12.30pm and is now asleep again 1.30pm-3.30pm (I'm currently in Cyprus which is 2 hours ahead).

So I'll be feeding him on demand today. Poor little tyke must be exhausted.

It might be that he is just out of sorts if you are away from home.

If it is hot in Cyprus you might be dehydrated so keep drinking lots.

Eat and drink well as I mentioned in my earlier post and don't do too much strenuous activity.

hth