Congestion-charging trap!!!

ancientbuilding

I paid the £187 realising that they probably have a collection of dodgy tricks to increase it if I don't, and now I am planning suing them to get the money back plus costs. I have found it quite difficult to manage financially this month as a result of this, but someone has to have some principles when it comes to scams like this.

I will try to keep everybody posted.

mttylad

Have you gone to the sign and turned it around the right way so that no one else is caught out by it?

londonTiger

hmm.. I was scared that I may have fallen victim of the trap, but I realised I was going westwards during hours of operation and there is a one way road instructing you to do the detour.

As others have said, on Google maps it's set the correct way, so make sure you get evidence of it facting the wrong way ASAP. Becaue if they fix it and you have no evidence.

Also, this things are so annoying, you lose either way. Whether you pay the fine or if you spend time off work trying to gather evidence and stuff to make your case.

You have to put in a lot of time when appealing thee things and most of the time people just pay it off because they cant be arsed to waste a weekend finding out how to appeal and then appealing,

ancientbuilding

Here's me update:

I took photos of the street-corner concerned a few times between January and June and on each occasion reminded them that it needed fixing - but they took no notice. Then on 16th June I noticed it had been turned slightly but was still very difficult to see......

Then I took county court action and two days later the sign was as it should be!

The problem now is that they are full of dodgy tricks, so they might decide to defend the action, and this could be done by several timewasting and irritating methods. I would far prefer to use my life on more sensible activities.

However, I am considering going to my MP about this, because it will have fleeced a very large number of people, and because they are probably doing it in several places. TFL should either be forced to pay a huge sum into the public purse or make a refund for everybody who might have been caught in this way - in my opinion the latter rather than the former.

ancientbuilding

London Tiger, I have been wondering if they have done this at numerous places in London because it is such easy money, so I gave it much thought and came to the conclusion that it was a 'masonic fraud' - one in which a large network of people all play a small part and get a part of the takings each. It is almost undetectable and would be most easily indulged in by joining a 'society with secrets'.

So I made various enquiries of TFL (mostly Freedom of Information enquiries) and they were very slow in answering. I had to keep on at them. The outline I have is that the operation is 'outsourced' to IBM (International Business Machines) but the signage, road reapirs, etc is farmed out to a large collection of smallish firms.

So I came to the conclusion that it was indeed 'masonic' after finding out a few other things and made it clear that this was what I thought.

Then yesterday a cheque for £187 came in the post, leading me to the conclusion that I was right. It was indeed a masonic fraud.

However, they have not refunded my costs or offered any compansation.

I sent an email to Alison Munro of TFL who had contacted me. Here it is:

AlisonMunro@tfl.gov.uk

Dear Ms. Munro

Thank you for your recent eamil with attachment, which did some damage to my computer but no permanent damage. It is the usual TFL document with far too many words and evidently designed to prevent anyone understanding what it is trying to say at the same time as defending a case (of some sort). I do not know where you get your imformation from, but there are fundamental untruths in it. That's the trouble with masonic fraud: It is very difficult to trace because it relies on networking, so no one person can be pinned down without extensive investigation.

Today I received a refund of the £187, which rather puts that whole document in question, and suggests that my accusation of masonic fraud is reasonable and probably correct.

However, I have not had my costs refunded or any offer of compensation for the huge amount of stress endured and time wasted. I do not really want to go back to court if I can avoid it. It is such a waste of time. Please try and do something about this.

(freedom of information again) I want to know how many other people who were charged during that period have had their charges refunded, whether anybody has had an apology, and what you have done about previous years (because it must have been going on for years).

Yesterday I noticed the sign at that particular junction is partially turned away from view by oncoming traffic again. I will look again soon just to make sure your people do something about it. It would be easy enough to fix it permanently facing in the right direction, but perhaps that does not suit?

Should the public have to do their own policing when they pay substantial money to have it done for them?

Yours


(ancientbuilding)
(end of email)

Reader, I need to remind you that the offending sign stayed turned in the wrong direction for a period in excess of 6 months, and was only (partially) rectified when I made a claim through the county court.

The judge was interesting on this matter when it came to court. He is a judge to whom I have seen a defendant making masonic signals in the past. He told me that he could not hear my case because the Parking Appeals Adjudicator (some name like that) should hear it. His name is not dissimilar to SizeMML. Work it out.

ancientbuilding

Here's a fine thing.

When TFL refunded the £187 it was accompanied by a letter saying this:

"We previously wrote to you to advise you that monies you paid towards the above Penalty charge notice(s) PCN(s) were to be refunded.

Please find enclosed ..."

etc.

There is a person who steals mail in this house, and so I needed to know exactly what that previous letter had said, and I phoned their non-premium number and started making my enquiries. The first person I spoke to asked me to hold the line and then I was cut off, and the next few pased me from one to another all asking questions about the charge notice and none asking questions about the reference on the letter I had received.

When eventually I started being forceful they admitted they didn't know anything about it, and one or two told me that they thought it might just be a 'generic' letter (a template for staff to fill in) and that probably they were telling a lie - but perhaps not a lie intended to deceive.

I pointed out that I had already concluded that they were a dishonest company (I think I've already shown that), hoping that this might cause them to make an effort to find this letter, but it was to no avail.They couldn't.

My costs in this matter came to a considerable sum, and they have not refunded them, and the stress coming from the knowledge that I had been swindled was immeasurable. I will still have to go back to court.

How many others have they caught in this way?

ancientbuilding

who wrote:

"Dear(Ancientbuilding)

Re: Congestion Charging Zone Entry Signage

Thank you for your email of 11 February 2014 addressed to Alison Munro. As Customer Correspondence Manager for London Road User Charging, Alison has asked me to respond and I reviewed your case.

To clarify, the £187 refund of monies paid in respect of penalty charge notice (PCN) TF6072513A was issued to you as a gesture of goodwill. Having looked at this case in detail, I am satisfied that the signage in place at the boundary point in question was sufficient to make you aware that you had entered the Congestion Charging zone. As no charge was paid, we consider that the PCN was correctly issued.

I understand that your claim for costs in relation to this matter was struck out by the County Court on 4 November 2013. On the basis of the reasons for Transport for Londons (TfLs) original defence of the claim and the subsequent decision made by the County Court, it is not deemed appropriate to offer compensation on this occasion.

Following your previous correspondence we did have the sign realigned however, bearing in mind your latest comments, I have asked that a maintenance check be carried out at this location. Notwithstanding this, the additional signs in place clearly indicate that this location lies within the Congestion Charging zone and that a charge is therefore payable.

Further to your request under the Freedom of Information Act for details relating to the number of people who were charged and subsequently refunded during the period of time the sign was partially twisted, I can confirm that between 1 January 2013 and 1 August 2013, 759 PCNs were incurred by motorists whose vehicles were observed by the camera sited at this zone entry point. Of these PCNs, 34 have subsequently been cancelled, however none of them were cancelled specifically on the basis that there was no or insufficient signs warning motorists that they had entered the zone.

As outlined in Ms Munros email of 29 January 2014, if you remain dissatisfied with the way in which we have dealt with your complaint you may wish to contact the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO). The LGO is an independent national service that investigates complaints of maladministration against local authorities. If they find that Transport for London has done something wrong, they can ask us to take action to put the matter right, which may include instructing us to pay costs if deemed appropriate. The LGO can be contacted via their website at https://www.lgo.org.uk, or by calling their advice line on 0300 061 0614."

End of quote

(I have quite a lot of experience of Ombudsmen, and I would not expect them to do anything more than waste time.

But what is perhaps much more interesting is that the camera was not at that point atll! And the other 725 PCNs were, (on account of TFL's decision to refund me) what a judge might describe as 'unsafe'. Add to that the fact that they allege to have written to me when in fact they may not have written to me after all according to the people who answer the phone at their number and that increases the 'unsafe' idea.

Then couple this to the fact that they made a refund as soon as I suggested masonic fraud and I have to think I was right.)

To which I then responded:

Dear Mr. Hassett

Thank you for your email of the 26th. Your firm are not going to be able to get away with this kind of cheating forever if I have my way.

Will you please answer the questions I posed Ms. Munro and at the same time let me know whether your firm intend to pay my costs and time or will leave me to go to court for recovery?

Yours (Ancientbuilidng)


"Dear (Ancientbuilding)

Thank you for your email. Can you please state which specific questions which you posed to Ms Munro you are referring to. My last response did included details of the PCNs which you had asked for.

As stated in my previous email we will not be making any payment to you however, you may ask the Ombudsman's office to investigate this matter."

I must say he has to some extent answered my query and I might have neglectfully overlooked his answer.

Whatever, the facts, they refunded me without my asking for a refund, and that implies that I was right.

(I should tell you that my claim was struck out by the County Court not because I had no grounds but because the judge ruled that I should have gone to the Parking Adjudicator instead of the County Court.)

Really, it's time for the SFO to come into action.

ancientbuilding

During the six months that the sign was facing in the wrong direction I wrote and told them 3 or more times (cannot be bothered to look at my records) of the problem and they did nothing about it until I took court action, when they acted with some rapidity.

londonTiger

I'm out of this forum due to constant bullying by forum members

ancientbuilding

OK.

But if I tell you that they have given me a refund (but not paid the court charges or my time) and thereby admitted fault, that the road surface markings were worn away completely at the time, that I needed to call at an address within the zone and would have come back out of hours if necessary, and that the upright sign was facing in the opposite direction perhaps you will accept that I might have a case!

This matter, it seems to me, was deliberate masonic fraud, and I must do something about getting my court fees back and getting a refund for the thousands of others caught in the same way.

By the way, it is IBM that operates this business. They are an outsourcer for TFL, which is probably another of those jobs-for-the-boys Thatcherite outfits.