Renting

JencParker

I am a home owner so have no personal experience of renting in the last 25 years, but reading many of the threads on here, I am shocked at how few rights tenants have, how LA/EA are now charging tenants fees that would years ago, be met by the landlord, and how little security of tenure a tenant has (other than the contract they sign).

Am I alone in thinking that this is immoral. Those who cannot afford to buy (due to the reckless policies that created the property boom) and the high rents make it impossible the average wage earner to save enough for a deposit, so renting is their only option. Renting, where you can only be sure of having a home for a year! Where you could be looking to have to move home every year! Not just the expense (and the annual admin charges), but what of those with children in school?

We are constantly being told that we are a civilised western society. I have my doubts.

Lagoon

I wouldn't consider it immoral, exactly. Of course, that might be because I haven't considered that there is any other way.

The homeowners are the ones that have the power, and that's fair enough, though I do think that you only hear the horror stories on here.

You consider a homeowners point of view, and why would they sell? If they have one property, and the money to move to another, then they can easily charge rent to cover the original mortgage repayments and provide them with a profit. That's a bit if a catch-22 situation. LLs don't sell because they have no need to, which means that there's a big demand for both houses to buy and properties to rent, which pushes the prices up for renters even further.

All that said I've been renting for years and expect to keep doing so for a considerable length of time, possibly forever, because of those high rent prices. I'm satisfied that if you're a good tenant and obey your LL's rules, they won't push their luck either. It's easier for them to have one family in their home long-term, paying their rent regularly. Our current rental contract was only valid for six months, and we were supposed to have inspections every six months. We've now lived here for a few years, had only one inspection and feel confident that our landlord won't get rid of us without any good reason because we're good tenants, we can be trusted and we keep the property in good condition.

Their house, their rules. We specifically have to find properties that will accept our pet (fortunately not a cat or dog, as that would be even more challenging) but they're out there at least. All LL's are different. Sometimes you get lucky, other times you don't, but with the current housing situation I'm grateful for what I can find out there!

All that said, our current LL lives abroad and doesn't want to deal with anything if he can help it. A good life if you've got the money. We'll probably never speak to him.

RupertTheCat

As a landlord I can assure you that letting agents charge the landlords large amounts too - often the tenant and the landlord pay for the same thing. I pay a month's rent plus VAT to letting agents to let my property.

As a rule we want tenants to stay for years. I don't want tenants on 6 or 12 months leases, I love them to stay longer. It's a nuisance having to find tenants. And I don't put the rent up either - I've had one tenant for 5 years who is still paying the same amount as at the start. He's a good tenant and I would like to keep him.

Of course there will always be disreputable landlords but there are quite a lot of disreputable tenants too. I do think the fees letting agents charge are shocking, and where possible I bypass them so the tenant doesn't have to pay them.

Not everyone wants to own a property though. I often rent to people who're on short term contracts and just need somewhere to live for 6 months - they often own properties elsewhere. And I myself rented well into my thirties and enjoying the freedom of renting and being able to move frequently (those were the days...). And getting the landlord to pay for repairs! It's expensive owning a property and a constant money drain. And that's just talking about the property I live in, not the rented ones.

If anything goes wrong in one of my rental properties, it is fixed straight away. The result of this is they are better looked after than my own house which is gradually falling down...!

I don't think we live in a particularly civilised society either, but for reasons that have nothing to do with the current state of the property market.

princeofpounds

Renting, where you can only be sure of having a home for a year! Where you could be looking to have to move home every year! Not just the expense (and the annual admin charges), but what of those with children in school?

Yes, security of tenure is a major problem. If you have a six month contract, you basically have to be thinking about moving 2-3 months before expiry. That's just TWELVE weeks of stree-free living!

It has other consequences too; it can prevent tenants holding their landlord to their obligations - a retaliatory eviction is just a postage stamp away. Agents become overly focused on tenancy renewals as their earner, rather than management fees, distorting incentives. etc.

As for why LAs get away with charging weird fees, a lot of that stems from market structure as I outline on the post linked to below.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/60830047#Comment_60830047

braun_2

Don't forget inspections... most standard tenancy agreements state that the EA will come around and make sure you don't have 12 people living in each room nor are you using the house as a meth lab. Unfortunately you usually get some cocky 20 something who failed to read the inventory and then leaves a note saying the garden needs weeding.

Real invasion of privacy when you work full time, or even if you don't, its not very nice someone walking around your home looking at your personal space/belongings and 'inspecting' you.

Callie22

braun wrote: »

Don't forget inspections... most standard tenancy agreements state that the EA will come around and make sure you don't have 12 people living in each room nor are you using the house as a meth lab. Unfortunately you usually get some cocky 20 something who failed to read the inventory and then leaves a note saying the garden needs weeding.

Real invasion of privacy when you work full time, or even if you don't, its not very nice someone walking around your home looking at your personal space/belongings and 'inspecting' you.

So true. Our current agent inspects every three months and it's incredibly intrusive. I have to take time off work to accommodate the visits as I don't want the agents in the house alone. They can't be trusted to respect our privacy (during one inspection the agent stood on my bed to swing the light shade around as he 'checked for mould', another left the back door unlocked ...) and it's so frustrating to have to keep letting these strangers into every room of what's supposed to be my home. I wouldn't mind if the landlord actually did repairs and maintenance or if there was a problem with the way I keep the house, but the place is falling apart and the agent admits that we're 'the cleanest tenants we've ever had'.

braun_2

Callie22 wrote: »

during one inspection the agent stood on my bed to swing the light shade around as he 'checked for mould'

This makes my blood boil and its not even my house :mad:

I'd be very angry if they did this to me. They don't seem to understand why you want to be there for the inspection either

LittleMissAspie

The thing I hate(d) most about renting was having to ask to have a pet. It was one thing being 10 years old and having to ask my mum if I could have a hamster, it's quite another having to do the same when you are 30. I have the right to pop out 6 children in a rental but I don't have the right to get a hamster? It's demeaning.

And yes, agency fees are a complete rip-off. They are even starting to charge moving out fees now!

braun_2

Unfortunately both landlords and tenants are stuck with EAs for now. I do think the government should step in and legislate more to stop EA getting away with so much. In my opinion the deposit protection scheme that was introduced in the last few years has really helped tenants get a fairer deal.

The advertising Standards Agency have just passed a ruling last month about EAs not declaring fees up front... Although no change yet

http://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2013/ASA-clamps-down-on-hidden-letting-agent-fees.aspx

Callie22

braun wrote: »

The advertising Standards Agency have just passed a ruling last month about EAs not declaring fees up front... Although no change yet

http://www.asa.org.uk/News-resources/Media-Centre/2013/ASA-clamps-down-on-hidden-letting-agent-fees.aspx

I'm not sure how this is really going to help. I appreciate that it's reasonable to expect that tenants shouldn't get stung with hidden fees but part of this seems to be the idea that tenants will somehow be able to shop around if they don't like the fees on display. The problem is that, certainly going off my own experience, agencies in a certain area all tend to charge pretty similar fees. OH and I are looking to move and practically every local agency seems to charge about £150 per person for referencing, £75/£100 for admin fees, £50 to protect the deposit and then a further fee (ranging from £50-£100) for 'check in'. There are a couple with 'special offers on admin fees' but they're usually for the properties that nobody wants ... There's really not *that* much choice locally, and there's even less if you have any special requirements - like if you want a house where the landlord will let you have pets (or children!) or if you're claiming benefits. This idea of giving tenants choice is a bit of an illusion - as a tenant you have to take what fits best at the time you need to move, and swallow the fees

braun_2

Callie22 wrote: »

The problem is that, certainly going off my own experience, agencies in a certain area all tend to charge pretty similar fees.

I've rang around recently ( as i am moving )and got prices ranging from £180 to £500 for two people. The funny thing is they all charged differently, e.g. some didn't charge for check out, some didn't charge for inventory etc etc.

It is no different to what is going on with the gas/electric companies, they rip us off because they can. However I will (and have) walked away on principle if the fee is just ridiculous.

This is a recent post of mine from another thread... I found this EA too expensive so walked away.

braun wrote: »

Found a property I want to move into. Negotiated a rental price with the owner and estate agent has just asked me for £480 admin fee :eek:

I asked for a breakdown and it is £120 fees per person = £240 Plus £120 moving in charge per person.

Why is there a moving in charge? are they going to help us carry our furniture? Why is the moving in charge per person? it only takes one of us to collect the keys.