Campaign to ditch the non-DD surcharge?

Umistboy

Buzby wrote: »

All be wrong? For bullying consumers into giving up financial control of their bank account?

I don't play their game - I pay around £100pa more for not having DD's but I know exactly what is in my accounts and there are no surprises. That's worth £100 to me along with my financial control.

You must have had some bad DD experiences to feel that way.

I left my parents place 7 years ago to move into my first home. I pay £43 elec and £37 gas each month and have never had them changed more than £2 on the yearly review (price increases!). Also never had a debit to pay off or as they are always pretty spot on.

I give regular readings so always know how much my bill is going to be, what will be taken and when and feel 100% in control of it all.

Cannot imagine anything that would make me pay £100 p.a. to have the hassle of having to ensure I meet pay deadlines myself.

Buzby

My bank Account was emptied three times in 7 years! On each occasion it was 'computer error' so I am expected to be understanding and not mind asking for my own money back. No apology was forthcoming either. Neither was any compensation due under this nonsensical 'guarantee'.

Howver there is more to this than simply having a 'bad experience'. It is one of being adult enough to control your own affairs.

If you are in your 40's you would rightfully be embarrassed/annoyed if a parent wielding a hanky wiped your nose as if you were a 5 year old. Yet think nothing of saying to multiple firms - 'please, take what you want I'm too busy to bother'.

Next of kin wouldn't need to even go to the expense of going to the Court of Protection to get a financial Power of Attorney - when a no cost DDM would achieve the same result!

The reason why it costs me more, is because firms will provide discounts for paying the way the want you to, or will charge you more if you don't. It might not be a conspiracy, but it costs no more for a firm to receive my payment electronically than if they call for it themselves from a DD. this is why Virgin Media charge £60pa extra.

Just like the exposure of debit and credit card charges has been addressed, DD abuse should be next.

Umistboy

Buzby wrote: »

If you are in your 40's you would rightfully be embarrassed/annoyed if a parent wielding a hanky wiped your nose as if you were a 5 year old. Yet think nothing of saying to multiple firms - 'please, take what you want I'm too busy to bother'.

I've never said to any firm 'please, take what you want I'm too busy to bother'. I have an agreement with them that as long as they inform me of what they are about to take prior to doing so then they can as long as the bill they send/inform me of is correct.

They send these ~3 weeks before they are taken and, as of yet, I'm yet to see a single incorrect bill/direct debit taken out of the many 100's I've seen in the last 7 years.

Should one be incorrect I would then have ~3 weeks to contact them and correct it. Should it ever happen I imagine I would be a little annoyed that it would take a few minutes of my day yet I've saved possibly £1000's over the years by having this agreement.

I find it a fantastic system in my experience.

Umistboy

Buzby wrote: »

The reason why it costs me more, is because firms will provide discounts for paying the way the want you to, or will charge you more if you don't. It might not be a conspiracy, but it costs no more for a firm to receive my payment electronically than if they call for it themselves from a DD. this is why Virgin Media charge £60pa extra.

No conspiracy - they offer you a discount, you've refused it choosing to pay 100% of the bill you've racked up. Freedom of choice.

Whilst it doesn't cost the firm anything to receive the money non-direct debit it does cost them to hire the necessary number of staff to chase up those who pay late etc. These overheads are not covered entirely by late payment fees etc meaning that there is a cost to the firm to allow this option. Therefore people choosing this option do not qualify for the discount.

Umistboy

Buzby wrote: »

Just like the exposure of debit and credit card charges has been addressed, DD abuse should be next.

They'll never be able to stop this. They aren't charging any extra for not paying by direct debit.

You're only paying for the exact amount of energy that you've used.

Example In a supermarket they may sell cans of beans for 50p each with the offer of 3 for 2. One person may choose to take all 3 for £1 (33.3p each) whilst another may buy just 1 can for 50p. It doesn't mean the one who bought one can is being unfairly charged extra per can - they're paying for what they chose to buy at the normal price. It's completely their choice if they wanted to meet the criteria to receive the extra discount or not. Same applies here.

G6JPG

fionajbanana wrote: »

I worked for a company that did charge customers that did not pay by direct debit. Part of my job was to call these customers 8 days after their payments should have been received by us.

99.9% of the customers did not have a direct debit set up and said cheque was in the post etc. The other 0.1% were customers when they changed jobs and had to wait 6 weeks before their first pay, had problems with their bank account etc.

So hit them with penalties - or, if you want to appear nicer, offer a prompt-payent discount (same thing). Don't use them as an excuse to sucharge all of us.

[snip]Plus with DD, I am not wasting precious time queuing up at banks and post offices paying the bills. They are all taken in the early hours - ie when I'm asleep.

That's another thing: why is there so often the assumption that those of us who don't trust DD are all stuck in the dark ages and want to queue and pay by cheque (or even cash - "if I can't cut glass with it is isn't real":)). I pay online, at a time to suit me - no queuing involved.

As for DD making it easier to budget, that only applies if they even them out across the year. I know some of them do that - fine, I'd be happy to pat by standing order. (But the few that will let me still charge more than they do for DD; I'd like to hear them [honestly] justify doing so.)

Cardew

Buzby wrote: »

Howver there is more to this than simply having a 'bad experience'. It is one of being adult enough to control your own affairs.

I have 11 monthly Direct Debits and some annual DD. My wife also has several. I suspect many others have a similar number.

Some of those like credit cards vary greatly from month to month as I pay in full each month.

Others e.g. gas/electricity tend to be the same amount for several months at a time; yet more are fixed for the year. Some are for 10 months in the year(Council Tax and Water)


I can also go abroad for weeks without having to worry about paying outstanding bills.

Your definition of 'Adult enough' presumably means personally handling all those transactions and it costing £hundreds extra?

Nada666

Umistboy wrote: »

Example In a supermarket they may sell cans of beans for 50p each with the offer of 3 for 2. One person may choose to take all 3 for £1 (33.3p each) whilst another may buy just 1 can for 50p. It doesn't mean the one who bought one can is being unfairly charged extra per can - they're paying for what they chose to buy at the normal price. It's completely their choice if they wanted to meet the criteria to receive the extra discount or not. Same applies here.

But that is not the way supermarkets are operating - nine times out of ten 33.3p is the correct price for the product - the 50p is not a normal price. The supermarkets are not allowing customers to pay a normal price for many of their products - for some lines there is systemic overcharging.

Buzby

Actually no - I mean taking the responsibility for my actions, without need of letting a virtual army of creditors help themselves when they want to the contents of my and account.

I also go abroad for months without any issues - I have an app called Billminder that keeps me fully informed when amounts are due to be paid, and with a few clicks the amount is instantly transferred to the creditor via BACS. An Internet cafe or mobile signal is the minimum I require.

It is surprising how many people have no idea how to pay bills via BACS - to them it is DD or a cheque in the post. I blame the schools....

closed

the bank manager has one hand and one eye on the wallet, should the third party mess up (which they never do in most peoples experience)

DD's free up time, reduce effort, make budgeting easier, and are cheaper, that makes them a complete no brainer. You still get your bill in advance (most of them 12 months in advance), you still know what's going to come out in advance, just someone else is doing it for you.

I know, give or take a couple of pounds for the possibly varying water bill, all my bills for the next year in advance, they all come out on the same day of the month (which I chose), I do nothing (car tax is one annoying exception, a bureaucratic tax and system still stuck in the 1970's), that has nothing to do with lack of responsibility, that is not wasting time and money doing pointless tasks.


Automation is what computers were invented for, and many many decades on, people still try to do things the hard way to fight the system.