Advice re: sats for Yr6

Kaz2904

Crikey, I've done no revision with DD :eek:. She's stressed out enough already and has been doing so much revision that she missed her piano lesson the other day as she was in the middle of a practice test

balletshoes

Courgette wrote: »

I hate to say this but although I agree with everything written above about Sats not being important and schools setting according to their own tests on a personal level, as a secondary English teacher I should point out that secondary schools do place a lot of value on KS2 results or at least the ones I've worked in have done.
Your KS2 results will determine how many levels of progress you are expected to make and what your GCSE target grade will be.
As a teacher I have to show that I use the data that's available to me and that includes making sure that my students progress as they are supposed to do and get the grades they're supposed to achieve. I hate to say it, but the reality is that once a student is on course to reach their target grade they will not be pushed any further so the teacher can focus efforts on students who aren't on track. This means for the student that they might not do as well as they could have done had their Sats result been even a sublevel higher.

Utter b0llocks if you ask me and my days in teaching are definitely numbered.

but thats all they are - targets. Projections on bits of paper, which can be read in all manner of ways.

My DD's state secondary school started having the pupils take their own ability/setting tests on the year 6 placement days in June/July, before they even started at the school. They have carried on ability testing and setting (don't even get me started on the start and year end targets) all through the school year.

If kids are being hothoused to get that holy grail level 6 in their SATs in year 6, theres the potential for them to really struggle in secondary school because you're right, they will be in a larger class and they will be pressured to meet that "go up 2 sublevels by the end of the year".

bylromarha

daisiegg wrote: »

I know as a parent/relative it must be very hard to believe when you are going through it, but the Y6 SATs do not matter whatsoever for the child. I am a secondary English teacher and we completely ignore the SATs level when they come in Y7. They are absolutely useless.

Do you know how depressing that is for a primary teacher to read?

I agree SATS are pointless and some kids are hot housed for them. But don't assume that is always the case. Can I suggest you do some moderation with your feeder primaries in order to see just how much quality work is produced by the year 6s? Agree together what a level 3/4/5 looks like from the many pieces the child has produced?

The kids need to hit the ground running when they start secondary and being made to repeat learning is unhelpful for them, especially when secondary teachers claim that all their hard work in year 6 is useless.

daisiegg

bylromarha wrote: »

Do you know how depressing that is for a primary teacher to read?

I agree SATS are pointless and some kids are hot housed for them. But don't assume that is always the case. Can I suggest you do some moderation with your feeder primaries in order to see just how much quality work is produced by the year 6s? Agree together what a level 3/4/5 looks like from the many pieces the child has produced?

The kids need to hit the ground running when they start secondary and being made to repeat learning is unhelpful for them, especially when secondary teachers claim that all their hard work in year 6 is useless.

We do a lot of moderation with our local primaries, actually (which I know is unusual, but it is something a colleague of mine has spearheaded and is very passionate about). And this moderation has found that in a lot of cases, our interpretation of what, say, a 5c looks like can be very different to a primary school's interpretation. Added to the fact that the tasks are just very different at secondary school (depressing as it is, we have to think about preparing them for GCSE style tasks right from y7 )

If you agree that SATs are pointless then I think we actually don't disagree about anything.

I don't really understand your point about repeating learning they have already done in y6. I don't see how we do that? We also don't devalue their hard work in y6? We just don't pay much attention to what they got in the SATs test. That is a different thing.

valk_scot

Here in Scotland we do have national assesment tests but they're approached in a different way. First we as parents generally have no idea when the child is doing them or even if they did one that day, unless the child mentions having done it. They're not done at a specific time of year but scattered, as the school sees appropriate. There's no encouragement to revise for them at home, they really are taken as a snapshot of the child's school work. League tables? I expect we have them somewhere but we parents don't see them, unless they're in some sort of newspaper article. The only thing we hear is if they get mentioned in passing at Parents Night.

It makes for a far less stressful life for both child and parent, from what I hear about some English schools. I don't think our academic standards are lower though...maybe it gives our schools more time for actual teaching and learning, rather than constantly focussing on "passing" tests? I've got no problems with my children being assessed btw, just that I'm not convinced of the stress of lots of revision and hothousing being beneficial at this younger age group. Surely it's more useful to assess kids at a normal classroom level to see what they're actually capable of rather than inflicting the whole exam stress scenario on younger kids?

balletshoes

bylromarha wrote: »

Do you know how depressing that is for a primary teacher to read?

I agree SATS are pointless and some kids are hot housed for them. But don't assume that is always the case. Can I suggest you do some moderation with your feeder primaries in order to see just how much quality work is produced by the year 6s? Agree together what a level 3/4/5 looks like from the many pieces the child has produced?

The kids need to hit the ground running when they start secondary and being made to repeat learning is unhelpful for them, especially when secondary teachers claim that all their hard work in year 6 is useless.

I,m confused ~ i didnt read anything from daisiegg about children re~learning year 6 work in year 7 because primary teaching is bad?

pigpen

I'd leave him be and tell him so long as he does his best the same as with every other piece of school work you will all be proud of him.

SATs are a waste of everyones time and effort.. take him out and have some fun instead that is far more important and has a greater impact on their long term life than a stupid number on a piece of paper

snozberry

pigpen wrote: »

SATs are a waste of everyones time and effort.. take him out and have some fun instead that is far more important and has a greater impact on their long term life than a stupid number on a piece of paper

Bad advice as the child in question will have to do them when he returns to school.

I have been a teacher for x amount of years and I do not agree with them. The pressure that the children and my colleagues are under as a direct result is awful to witness (esp to a softie like me). However, unless the government decide to do something positive and constructive (for a change) then there is very little we can do about them.

The children who are taking them just need to have an early night, eat properly and, basically, just carry on as normal. If they want to talk about them, then let them. If not, then don't force the issue.

Kaz2904

snozberry wrote: »

Bad advice as the child in question will have to do them when he returns to school.

I have been a teacher for x amount of years and I do not agree with them. The pressure that the children and my colleagues are under as a direct result is awful to witness (esp to a softie like me). However, unless the government decide to do something positive and constructive (for a change) then there is very little we can do about them.

The children who are taking them just need to have an early night, eat properly and, basically, just carry on as normal. If they want to talk about them, then let them. If not, then don't force the issue.

I may have read it wrong but I read it as pigpen was saying to take him out instead of revising.
Hopefully DD doesn't lose sleep about them

mrcow

bylromarha wrote: »

Do you know how depressing that is for a primary teacher to read?

I agree SATS are pointless and some kids are hot housed for them. But don't assume that is always the case. Can I suggest you do some moderation with your feeder primaries in order to see just how much quality work is produced by the year 6s? Agree together what a level 3/4/5 looks like from the many pieces the child has produced?

The kids need to hit the ground running when they start secondary and being made to repeat learning is unhelpful for them, especially when secondary teachers claim that all their hard work in year 6 is useless.

But what's the point of me trying to moderate a primary score when I can get my own levels with 2 hours of tests and 10 hours of marking? And then I know it's then a level score because I did it myself. My level 5 looks a lot different to some primary level 5s.

btw to any parents/primary teachers reading the above comment from a secondary teacher about not pushing pupils beyond their target, I have to say that that's rubbish for many teachers out there. I will and do push pupils to be their absolute best. If someone is persistently not achieving their target, well perhaps their target was wrong in the first place. If someone achieved their target easily, well again, perhaps their target was wrong. In which case, I talk to the pupil about what they should set their sights on and we go for it.

Targets and tests should be challenging and stimulating. Not stressful or unattainable.