Probate and houses.

CaptainSaver

Hi all,

just after some advice regarding the probate process.

My grandmother passed away recently and named me as her executor in her will with her estate being divided equally between my mother and I.

Her estate comes to around £370,000 (around £280,000 is a house), however her husband who died 13 years ago left all his estate to her so I'm assuming that IHT won't be a problem given that her estate is covered by a nil rate band transfer.

I have filled in form PA1, IHT205 and IHT217 which seemed relatively painless.

My questions are as follows:

1. My mother and I have agreed that I will have the title of the house in my name only - is this a straightforward thing to do? As executor do I need to provide evidence/justify to the probate court that my mother is happy with this arrangement?

2. Are there any other forms to fill in or is that about it before the grant of representation comes along?

3. The house has been owned since the 1960s and has not had a mortgage for some time. I've phoned round a few solicitors to try and find any title deeds but have been unsuccessful (it would appear that solicitor's firms merge/demerge/go into administration a lot!). I paid the £3 to use the Land Registry online service to check for ownership and the output was as follows:

It doesn't just have our house but pretty much all of the houses in the street on and says:

Registered owners: a housing trust

The same in the proprietorship register (i.e. the housing trust)

There is something that refers to both my grandfather and grandmother in the charges register:

Notice registered pursuant to Section 5 (5) of the Leasehold
Reform Act 1967 that a notice dated ** November **** as to (THE HOUSE IN QUESTION) has been served under that Act by (MY GRANDFATHER) and (MY GRANDMOTHER) both of (THE HOUSE IN QUESTION)

Then in the next section there's details of a 999 year lease from some date in the 1950s.

Obviously I've anonymised the above but you get the picture.

Basically I'm wondering if the above is going to cause a massive hassle or is this all fairly normal stuff? And if the former - how do I solve it?

Any help is much appreciated!

Thanks.

Land_Registry

There appear to be a number of issues you need to resolve here and there is a degree of complexity to each.

Probate will enable the executor(s) to deal with the estate, including any legal title. I cannot advise on the issue of providing evidence as to any agreement between you and your Mother although having read various threads on issues around probate etc such evidence is often only needed after the event i.e. if you do not abide by your grandmother’s wishes/will and/or any agreement with your Mother and it is then challenged. I am sure others will be able to advise on this.

The house appears to be registered but is it just the Freehold which is registered and in the name of the Housing Trust? - you refer to a 999 year lease from the 1950s which would tie in with ownership from the 1960s onwards but presumably that is not registered in it's own right i.e. no registered leasehold title exists?

The entry in the 'schedule of leases' may refer to it's own title number but I suspect it does not as you have not mentioned this. If the online service did not refer to a leasehold title for the property as well then this again suggests it is unregistered - that would not be unusual as they owned it for so many years and the 'trigger' (sale, mortgage etc) to register the lease in it’s own right never happened.

If it is unregistered then the issue of the deeds is important - take a look at our online guide on the subject of first registration where deeds have been lost.

The entry which appears in the Charges Register appears to relate to the fact that your grandparents have served notice on the Housing Trust expressing their desire to either acquire the freehold or take an extended lease (the latter is probably unlikely as the lease you refer to is already for 999 years though). Our online guide re the Leasehold reform legislation (see section 5) provides some background information although the issue of the title should be your main focus initially. You have not included the date on which this entry was made but if recent then that may hold a clue as to whether anyone has represented them legally? It might be worth asking any other flat owners as well as someone may have acted for them collectively?

Transferring the ownership into your name after an owner dies can be relatively straightforward - see our online guidance. However before completing any forms you should establish the following

1. Is the lease registered under it's own leasehold title
2. If not do the Housing Trust have any records to help you establish ownership e.g. their copy/counterpart of the lease?
3. When was the Notice entered on the register and by who?
4. The entry quoted refers to both of your grandparents – if they were joint owners then you would need to confirm that ownership passed to your grandmother

In answer to your final question I would suggest that this is not all normal stuff but providing you do the right detective work and establish the facts you should be able to resolve the issues faced. If the title was registered then the process could be relatively hassle-free.

Probate is the right starting point and establishing the exact details around their lease the next - once you know that position it will be easier for people to advise as to next steps. At the moment there are a few too many possibilities to cover.

Finally, I must stress that Land Registry cannot provide legal advice and I would encourage you to seek this at some stage. We can provide procedural advice regarding the land registration aspects by Contacting Us but at this stage you need to establish more details before that point is reached it seems.

CaptainSaver

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply.

First the issue of title numbers:

There is a title number provided right at the top of the register extract but as I said, this seems to refer to many different houses in the street.

When looking at the Schedule of notices of leases there are two houses listed before the one in question which have 8-figure alphanumberic codes next to them (which look the same format as title numbers), however the only number next to the house in question is a two-digit number (10).

I'm not sure whether this implies the land is registered or not, so I suppose my first question would be:

How do I establish definitively whether the land is registered?

And then depending on the answer to the above I will need to go down two different paths.

Many thanks.

Land_Registry

The title number at the top of the extract will be the freehold title.

The details in the schedule imply that it is not registered whilst the other two are.

I would check the specific postal address online again (not just the post code as this would reveal a long list) and see if only the Freehold information is revealed - there is no charge unless you then view the actual register again.
You could also search one or both of the title numbers quoted in the schedule to see how the information would be displayed i.e. freehold and leasehold, again no charge unless you view the information.

You can also take a look at our online Practice Guide 51 which contains the various administrative areas and their 'trigger dates' for compulsory registration - check the area for the relevant date. If the date listed is after the date that your grandparents bought the property then adding all things together it is very likely that the property is unregistered.

The only definitive way of confirming whether it is unregistered is by post - our online FAQ refers as to how to do this using form SIM