Do I legally have to Refund a seller??

Brooker_Dave

Spend the money, forget about the buyer, they tried it out and were happy.

If they wanted a perfect one they should have brought a new one...

dizzyrascal

pulliptears wrote: »

'sold as seen' means nothing if the item was described in full working order but actually wasn't (i.e a certain function wasn't operational).
Depending on the wording of your original advert you could find yourself in a small claims court under the misdescriptions act.

Utter Rubbish
It is a private sale and under English law there is a caveat
"Buyer Beware"
When you buy second hand there are no guarantees and the seller is not an expert so would not be expected to be aware of everything about the item they are selling.
The buyer had every chance to try the machine and reject the item if it wasn't satisfactory. Once they paid their money and took the item I'm afraid that was the sale concluded. The seller has no further responsibilities.
Ebay has brainwashed people into thinking that they must allow returns or refunds, but for a private sale like this it is not the case.

RFW

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Utter Rubbish
It is a private sale and under English law there is a caveat
"Buyer Beware"
When you buy second hand there are no guarantees and the seller is not an expert so would not be expected to be aware of everything about the item they are selling.
The buyer had every chance to try the machine and reject the item if it wasn't satisfactory. Once they paid their money and took the item I'm afraid that was the sale concluded. The seller has no further responsibilities.
Ebay has brainwashed people into thinking that they must allow returns or refunds, but for a private sale like this it is not the case.

I'd actually say you were both right. If it is a private transaction then it would largely be the buyer's problem, having checked and paid for it. However, Trading Standards could still prosecute the seller if they believed they had acted deceptively and/or were a business.
It does depend a lot on how the item was originally described.
From the info on here I'd say the majority are right and the buyer hasn't a leg to stand on.

ballisticbrian

Well, I think we've pretty much got that sewn up.

dizzyrascal

However, Trading Standards could still prosecute the seller if they believed they had acted deceptively and/or were a business.

Not if they are an individual selling their own things!!
This is why you get second hand car dealers selling cars at homes or using people's drives. They claim to be a private sale and so there can be no come back.
Trading Standards have enough on their plate chasing people who do claim to be private sellers but are really traders selling volume stuff as a business and making tons of money.
Stop putting the wind up people by suggesting that TS will pursue them for selling off Granny's stuff.
As an individual you are not deemed to have expert knowledge (as a car dealer would be expected or assumed to have, hence easier to prosecute).
The items were sold as seen. End of!

RFW

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Not if they are an individual selling their own things!!
This is why you get second hand car dealers selling cars at homes or using people's drives. They claim to be a private sale and so there can be no come back.
Trading Standards have enough on their plate chasing people who do claim to be private sellers but are really traders selling volume stuff as a business and making tons of money.
Stop putting the wind up people by suggesting that TS will pursue them for selling off Granny's stuff.
As an individual you are not deemed to have expert knowledge (as a car dealer would be expected or assumed to have, hence easier to prosecute).
The items were sold as seen. End of!

You did read my post right? I was agreeing with you.
The OP doesn't actually specify he is a private seller, he may very well have a garage with 4000 dodgy sewing machines in.
A person can still be prosecuted for knowingly selling a dodgy item, business or private seller. I couldn't, for example, sell a sewing machine that I knew would explode as soon as someone put a bobbin of thread on it.

pulliptears

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Utter Rubbish

Sigh.
Regardless of whether or not the buyer had ample time to try if the item was listed in full working order and wasn't then it's misrepresented. That gives you rights because what you have received didn't match the advertisement you purchased from.

Private sale or not the goods need to match the description. I suggest you look up the misrepresentations act 1967. Unless you are really suggestions that a seller can legally sell something that's nothing like the advert just because it's a private sale.....

To add further to this now I'm not trying to type on my phone....

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_goods_are_not_as_described_e/goods_dont_match_description.htm

The CAB Website covers misrepresentation, mostly for business sellers but there is a paragraph in there covering private sales which states:

If you think you've bought something because of a false statement made by a business or private seller, you may have the right to end the contract and get a refund. The law that gives you this right is the Misrepresentation Act 1967.

If the original ad said "FULL WORKING ORDER!" and was later found not to be that is misrepresentation. The buyer could argue in court that testing all 300 settings (random figure) of the machine would not have been practical and that they trusted the sellers description.

Of course, if the ad said "Sewing machine £50" and made no mention of condition then buyer has no comeback.

dizzyrascal

pulliptears wrote: »

Sigh.
Regardless of whether or not the buyer had ample time to try if the item was listed in full working order and wasn't then it's misrepresented. That gives you rights because what you have received didn't match the advertisement you purchased from.

Private sale or not the goods need to match the description. I suggest you look up the misrepresentations act 1967. Unless you are really suggestions that a seller can legally sell something that's nothing like the advert just because it's a private sale.....

To add further to this now I'm not trying to type on my phone....

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/consumer_goods_are_not_as_described_e/goods_dont_match_description.htm

The CAB Website covers misrepresentation, mostly for business sellers but there is a paragraph in there covering private sales which states:



If the original ad said "FULL WORKING ORDER!" and was later found not to be that is misrepresentation. The buyer could argue in court that testing all 300 settings (random figure) of the machine would not have been practical and that they trusted the sellers description.

Of course, if the ad said "Sewing machine £50" and made no mention of condition then buyer has no comeback.

Well the buyer can try their luck in the small claims court if they really believe that the item has been misdescribed.
But as long as the seller put a reasonable description of the product and didn't make any wild claims (remember, the law does not expect them to be an expert!!), or, that they believed it was a reasonable description of the product then the buyer would be laughed out of court!!!
One man's rubbish is another man's treasure (as the saying goes, or something like that)
The fact is that they came to see it, had plenty of time to try it, decided they wanted it and bought it. It is a second hand/used item.
Not a leg to stand on!

pulliptears

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Well the buyer can try their luck in the small claims court if they really believe that the item has been misdescribed.
But as long as the seller put a reasonable description of the product and didn't make any wild claims (remember, the law does not expect them to be an expert!!), or, that they believed it was a reasonable description of the product then the buyer would be laughed out of court!!!
One man's rubbish is another man's treasure (as the saying goes, or something like that)
The fact is that they came to see it, had plenty of time to try it, decided they wanted it and bought it. It is a second hand/used item.
Not a leg to stand on!

I think we'd have to agree to disagree on this one as we don't know how the OP described the machine.

That said this site is designed to make people aware of rights and when things like this occur and people post "Sold as seen!" and "Buyer Beware!" etc it's only fair to point out that there are avenues you can explore to obtain refunds.

In this case as I say if the ad said "Full Working Order" and was found not to be within days of the sale I personally think they would win the claim. How long do you sit in someones home trying out goods? An hour? Two hours? Depending on the complexity of the machine thats not unheard of. Buyer could argue that they didn't have time to check all features and based their purchase on the advert.

The onus was on the seller to spend those 2+ hours checking the features worked before advertising it as full working order.

dizzyrascal

That said this site is designed to make people aware of rights and when things like this occur and people post "Sold as seen!" and "Buyer Beware!" etc it's only fair to point out that there are avenues you can explore to obtain refunds.

And my point is that ebay have got everybody running for the hills and refunding when they don't have to when the truth is that the law will often protect them (even if ebay thinks it is the law).
This has made ebay a buyers paradise. Most private sellers end up thinking that they have to act like a shop and accept returns/refunds etc!!
Many buyers know this and end up using ebay like a shop!! It is not a shop and the same rules do not apply.
Once you put the word "USED" in to any advert then everything changes.
As you say, unless it was described as "Perfect working order" then the buyer has no where to go.