Nobody is priced out..

[Deleted User]

Conrad wrote: »

If what you describe were accurate we would not find masses of migrants wanting to get into the US and Britain, instead they would head for other places.

Everyday I meet young people of modest means that prove your description wrong.

They've saved, worked hard and are embarking on thier property and life journey and in 30 years time will be dispised as boomers by some from the generation that follows.

And those immigrants aren't following the 'conventional' western model of education->job->home ? They're following the savvy immigrant model of 'work your self to the ground for the good of your children'

And guess what, the next generation, the children of these immigrants; will probably be told "Don't work yourself to the bone like I did, get an education and better yourself". They'll then fall into the trap that most of our 18 year olds are getting into

ILW

Lagoon wrote: »

Finding somewhere that we'd 'want to rent for life' is different to expecting that it'll be possible.

My point is that we'll be looking for homes with the space, amenities and locations that we desire for long-term living, rather than choosing properties to rent because they fit our budget whilst we're trying to save for our own place.

i.e. Spending more on a rental property, with the intention that we'll stay there.

Trouble is that whether you get to stay there is completely beyond your control with rental. A landlord has control over your life.

Lagoon

ILW wrote: »

Trouble is that whether you get to stay there is completely beyond your control with rental. A landlord has control over your life.

Which is what that response was about.

Conrad

lazer wrote: »

Home ownership is not a must for bringing up children and personally I would rather bring up children in a nice rented house in a good area than a flat or house owned in a worse area.

I despair of people telling others to delay having children, delays can lead to difficulties in having children.

If renting works for you, fine by me, each to thier own, but in terms of typical outcomes most fair better by the process of building property equity compared to those that rent.

Nothing wrong with delayed gratification, it's what middle class University students have always done, instead of earning a wage from 17.

No one is saying have kids in thier 40's, but delaying until early 30's if it helps you carve out a secure space in life seems reasonable to me.

I live in rural toryshire and a typical residents profile would be;

+ Studied (although quite a high proportion instead worked and now own a business)
+ Moved back home / found a cheap rental place and saved
+ Bought in London in thier mid 20's - often in not such great areas
+ Moved to a better London postcode by c30 (often let out first place)
+ Moved out of London in mid 30's and used equity to buy nice house
+ Had kids

92203

Conrad wrote: »

You and Devon paint this as some sort of black or white choice, but that's far too simplistic.

There will always be a range of possibilities in terms of balancing saving with when to buy, relocating vs local wage levels, but the basic principle underlying all this is that one can delay gratification in order to put themselves in a better position later, rather than immediately rent / have babies.

I don't know how you can accuse me of pursuing immediate gratification. I have no children, brought a house (with 20% dep) and have worked hard for 12 years.

Buying a house was a black and white choice for us. At the time we brought, prices were going up faster than we could save, and we were aware of the fact that we could end up being priced out.

Factoring in my commuting costs, what we bought was at what we considered to be at the top end of what we could afford, factoring in potential financial shocks such as car repairs/replacement, house repairs, or my girlfriend getting pregnant (we have no children).

I have no idea of your background or financial circumstances Conrad, however, unless you have lived through a housing boom as an aspirational young person of limited financial means, you are not in a position to make cheap shots at me or anyone else in my position.

A £110K house was the best I could safely afford. Sadly this did not result in me living amongst like minded, considerate or well mannered individuals.

In hindsight, I'd have probably not brought and told my girlfriend to retrain and go to university straight away, using our deposit money to fund this. We'd have then saved after she graduated and bought a £150-200k house in a decent area, however, regardless of of our income, heavily leveraging ourselves would potentially preclude the possibility of children, and also put us in a risky financial situation -the days of a job for life are over, and I very much doubt that any job would last for the 25 year term of a mortgage.

I honestly don't know what to do now. We have some financial clout behind us and have saved up a decent deposit, which we will be growing significantly over the next 6-18 months (providing my new job goes well).

The fact that not being born/established or buying a house at the right time will have an adverse impact on the rest of our lives is a very difficult pill to swallow.

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

If what you describe were accurate we would not find masses of migrants wanting to get into the US and Britain, instead they would head for other places.

Everyday I meet young people of modest means that prove your description wrong.

They've saved, worked hard and are embarking on thier property and life journey and in 30 years time will be dispised as boomers by some from the generation that follows.

Masses of immigrants want to get into the US and UK because the US and UK have economies that run on outsourcing as much skilled work as possible and importing as much cheap immigrant labour as possible.

It is unfortunate, that our young are now considered as disposable and unimportant as the latest wave of low wagers arriving at Heathrow.

Conrad

ringo_24601 wrote: »

And those immigrants aren't following the 'conventional' western model of education->job->home ? They're following the savvy immigrant model of 'work your self to the ground for the good of your children'

And guess what, the next generation, the children of these immigrants; will probably be told "Don't work yourself to the bone like I did, get an education and better yourself". They'll then fall into the trap that most of our 18 year olds are getting into

I meet non immigrant indiginous youngsters starting out on the same journey thier parents did.

What is this trap you speak of?
Only yesterday I sorted a lad of 26, works on the railways, buying his first place. He is buying a cheapish flat in an average area (£120k) on his own. 10% deposit. He plans to let it out once he's cleaned the place up (with lenders permission of course). He will then save and buy another.

Unemployment is high but still a good deal less than in many places such as France (high tax and a leader that claimed austerity was not the way) and Spain.
There is no God given entitlment to be handed a life. Most get there in the end but sure as eggs is eggs each generation in every place on Earth always tell you todays woe is something new and insurmountable.

Percy1983

Having gone through the process I will say I have been attacked at many points for doing what is best by myself and my now wife.

1, I was wrong to run up debts while training, I was earning £40 and spending £70 at first, oh the life of luxury. Interestingly my wife to be was following a similar pattern of course I hadn't met her yet.

2, I was wrong to come up with a plan of reducing interest payments across both our debts as this involved transferring debts between our names (both ways), this was risky to each of us at different times, but we both benefitted massively.

3, During this time we both lived with parents and followed the good advice, but this was wrong as I was doing it.

4, It was wrong we went straight to a 3 bed semi as we should have saved for 2 months less and bought a flat, despite both being 28 at the time and certainly wanting children if possible.

I do wonder how much was because I was doing it wrong, and how much was sheer bitterness because I was getting it so right?

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Masses of immigrants want to get into the US and UK because the US and UK have economies that run on outsourcing as much skilled work as possible and importing as much cheap immigrant labour as possible.

It is unfortunate, that our young are now considered as disposable and unimportant as the latest wave of low wagers arriving at Heathrow.

Look around you, this forum is dedicated to buying as cheaply as possible.

Unless you consumers start deliberately targeting firms that charge more (because they pay workers well), then what is the answer?

You shop around for cheap tyres, ink and insurance so you are the reason wages in some sectors are kept low. Stop buying cheap chinese products would be a start.

Ask any self employed tradesperson how well to do left wing middle class types expect them to plaster thier walls and sort thier gardens for as little as possible.

Mr._Pricklepants

Percy1983 wrote: »

Having gone through the process I will say I have been attacked at many points for doing what is best by myself and my now wife.

1, I was wrong to run up debts while training, I was earning £40 and spending £70 at first, oh the life of luxury. Interestingly my wife to be was following a similar pattern of course I hadn't met her yet.

2, I was wrong to come up with a plan of reducing interest payments across both our debts as this involved transferring debts between our names (both ways), this was risky to each of us at different times, but we both benefitted massively.

3, During this time we both lived with parents and followed the good advice, but this was wrong as I was doing it.

4, It was wrong we went straight to a 3 bed semi as we should have saved for 2 months less and bought a flat, despite both being 28 at the time and certainly wanting children if possible.

I do wonder how much was because I was doing it wrong, and how much was sheer bitterness because I was getting it so right?

You're a good lad, Percy.

Just a pity that you don't conform to toastie's stereotype that our aspirational young can't afford to buy.