MIL not dead yet....

fluffymuffy

Just thought I'd worry about this before hand. In case something can be done while she's alive.

She's very elderly and bedridden. Looked after by her daughter (my SIL) - who comes in a few times a day and sometimes sleeps over.

MIL has made it clear that she wants SIL to have her house. This is not reflected in the will. She could change that if needed. But she believes that SIL could sell her own house and give half the money from that to my OH and his other sister. The house she's in being worth about half as much again as SIL's. This all makes sense. Except that MIL doesn't know that SIL doesn't actually own her house and it 100% owned by her BF.

Meanwhile, MIL's house is only half owned by MIL anyway. Upon FIL's death half of the house passed to his three children. So SIL already owns a sixth of the house.

Everyone wants the house to stay in the family. There's no question of any family fall out over this. Except that it's not really fair to ask OH and other-sister to just hand over their part of the house. Neither FIL nor MIL (who's still alive) wanted/want that to happen. They wanted to leave things equally between their three children.

The problem really is that SIL has no assets with which to buy out her siblings. Is there any remedy that can be suggested? At the moment SIL feels a bit of a fraud as she's having to thank her own mother for organising something that seems unlikely to happen.

dzug1

MiL needs to reconsider her situation in full knowledge of the facts and make a new will. Her verbal expression of wishes count for precisely zero.

What should be in that will - pass. There doesn't look to be a solution not fraught with problems.

If she won't do it or you are not willing to ask her then you are stuck.

Yes the family post death can rewrite the will virtually as they please via a deed of variation (assuming all agree) - but that seems to have difficult implications - either financial or fairness or both.

fluffymuffy

I think there needs to be some solution before her passing so that there isn't a mess afterwards.

simpywimpy

I would try to get a couple of her children over to explain the situation as it is and see if she would consider having another will drawn up. Doesn't it seem better to reword it as the FIL did and leave it equally to each of the children?

If you leave it as it, all the SIL has to do is refuse to part with what's been left to her and there will be little you can do. People can become very nasty when a will is being dealt with. I've just dealt with my dads from November and still get nasty text messages about it.

Mojisola

fluffymuffy wrote: »

Except that MIL doesn't know that SIL doesn't actually own her house and it 100% owned by her BF.

Meanwhile, MIL's house is only half owned by MIL anyway. Upon FIL's death half of the house passed to his three children. So SIL already owns a sixth of the house.

Why keep essential information from MIL? She's making decisions based on false information.

What does the present will actually say?

Goldiegirl

I think a new will should be drawn up to reflect the actual circumstances.

I also think there's a desire to protect the very elderly from the difficulties of life, that's why she hasn't been given the essential information.

It sounds as if thE MIL has all her mental faculties, so she really should be put in the picture.

I would also suggest you get legal advise with the will so it is drawn up in a way that won't cause more problems after MIL dies.

It would be nice to keep the house in the family, but if it can't then I think you'd have to accept it and sell up, so everyone gets their share.

When someone dies, there's a lot of letting go of the past that has to happen, and often that includes a family home.

Mojisola

Goldiegirl wrote: »

I think a new will should be drawn up to reflect the actual circumstances.

I also think there's a desire to protect the very elderly from the difficulties of life, that's why she hasn't been given the essential information.

fluffymuffy wrote: »

MIL has made it clear that she wants SIL to have her house. This is not reflected in the will.

She could change that if needed. But she believes that SIL could sell her own house and give half the money from that to my OH and his other sister. The house she's in being worth about half as much again as SIL's. This all makes sense. Except that MIL doesn't know that SIL doesn't actually own her house and it 100% owned by her BF.

Meanwhile, MIL's house is only half owned by MIL anyway. Upon FIL's death half of the house passed to his three children. So SIL already owns a sixth of the house.

Everyone wants the house to stay in the family. There's no question of any family fall out over this. Except that it's not really fair to ask OH and other-sister to just hand over their part of the house. Neither FIL nor MIL (who's still alive) wanted/want that to happen. They wanted to leave things equally between their three children.

The problem really is that SIL has no assets with which to buy out her siblings. Is there any remedy that can be suggested? At the moment SIL feels a bit of a fraud as she's having to thank her own mother for organising something that seems unlikely to happen.

It must be quite confusing for MIL - she has obviously thought things through and everything seems quite rational and yet the family are trying to get her to change her will. If I were her, I wouldn't change it either without a good reason, ie the truth!

Even if she leaves her half of the house to SIL or a deed of variation is done after she dies, that still leaves the problem of the siblings owning one-third of the house between them. At the moment, the others may be happy to give up their inheritance and not ask to be bought out by SIL but life brings changes and they may end up in a situation where they have to have the money.

Is SIL going to move into the house? Is it going to be rented out? Who is going to pay for upkeep and repairs?

troubleinparadise

fluffymuffy wrote: »

Just thought I'd worry about this before hand. In case something can be done while she's alive.

She's very elderly and bedridden. Looked after by her daughter (my SIL) - who comes in a few times a day and sometimes sleeps over.

MIL has made it clear that she wants SIL to have her house. This is not reflected in the will. She could change that if needed. But she believes that SIL could sell her own house and give half the money from that to my OH and his other sister. The house she's in being worth about half as much again as SIL's. This all makes sense. Except that MIL doesn't know that SIL doesn't actually own her house and it 100% owned by her BF.

Meanwhile, MIL's house is only half owned by MIL anyway. Upon FIL's death half of the house passed to his three children. So SIL already owns a sixth of the house.

Everyone wants the house to stay in the family. There's no question of any family fall out over this. Except that it's not really fair to ask OH and other-sister to just hand over their part of the house. Neither FIL nor MIL (who's still alive) wanted/want that to happen. They wanted to leave things equally between their three children.

The problem really is that SIL has no assets with which to buy out her siblings. Is there any remedy that can be suggested? At the moment SIL feels a bit of a fraud as she's having to thank her own mother for organising something that seems unlikely to happen.

There needs to be honesty and pragmatic reality in this situation for both MIL and the three children.

Is there a problem with being honest with her, or is it just a case of not wanting to worry an old and frail lady with such matters? The problem with tiptoeing around this is already beginning to lead to more white lies.

The three children also need to have a reality check about how they intend the house to stay "in the family". These things sound lovely until you actually sit down and work out how the finances and legalities would work.

Sometimes it just cannot be done, whatever emotions are tied up in the bricks and mortar of a family home. The costs to family relations can be very great when pragmatism has gone out of the window.

getmore4less

When was the last time any of the kids actualy stated inthe house.

is it actualy a suitable house for any of the family to live in.?

if we all kept the "family" homes and lived in them we all be in our grandparents houses, in our case a great place in the north of scotland the other too small.

Thats before the practical issues of owning, cost of upkeep, buying out other benificiaries etc.


The MIL needs to be told the full situation and plan from that.

Does the SIL partner that owns the place thye currently live want to move in or will they just stay where they are and rent it iout or split up.

if she can't afford to buy out the others what next?

does anyone else want the place

Renting it out as a joint owners could be a nightmare, choosing tenants, what to do when you get a bad one how much to keep back for repairs maintanence.

this needs some serious thinking through but the MIL needs to know that the Daughter has no money/property.

JimmyTheWig

How strong is the relationship between the SIL and BF?
What makes the MIL think her daughter owns her house when really her BF does?

If they are an established couple then does the fact that he owns the house affect things particularly? Could he not sell the existing house and buy the other two siblings out of the MIL's house?

fluffymuffy

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

How strong is the relationship between the SIL and BF?
What makes the MIL think her daughter owns her house when really her BF does?

If they are an established couple then does the fact that he owns the house affect things particularly? Could he not sell the existing house and buy the other two siblings out of the MIL's house?

They've been together more than 10 years. SIL gave up her job to look after her mother. She does get some carer's allowance (I think it's called) but not enough to pay her mortgage so BF took over the mortgage - and because he'd already invested a lot in doing the place up, and had lent her the initial deposit, it was fairer to just put it in his name. No one wanted to tell MIL this. She would think it was her fault.

Perhaps the BF could buy the house if he sells his. But it's not really what MIL had in mind.

I guess you can't wish some assets into existence.