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Bifold Doors Problem
tessal
Posts: 20 Forumite
Hi all,
I would like some advice with this and apologies for the length of this.
I was going to buy some ready made bifold doors for my extension. However at the last minute it turned out the lintel the structural surveyor had specified was not strong enough to accommodate a top hung door so i needed to find another door.
I then tried everywhere to get an off the peg bottom rolling bifold door and it turned out that for some reason all of the ready made doors were top hung. And all of the bespoke doors could be bottom rolling but most took about 12 weeks to make and deliver and the build could not continue and the house could not be secured until the doors were fitted.
Anyway i rang around every company i could find and eventually came across Living design bifolds (foldingtimberdoors.com)
I spoke to the owner Bernie who couldnt have been more helpful. I explained my predicament, he said he could have them made in just a few weeks if i paid half as a down payment within a couple of days as he had a production run going through then. He said that delivery was included in the price but if i wanted them asap he knew he had a delivery in the midlands in about 3 weeks and would deliver mine with this. He would normally wait until he had another set to deliver in the same area so if i wanted them ASAP he would charge me £100 towards the extra fuel costs of delivery which seemed very fair.
So far so good. The doors looked good on the website, for bespoke the price was reasonable although about 50% more than off the peg but i couldnt source off the peg bottom rolling doors. And even better they had a really good U value. I had found some bottom rolling aluminium doors which could also be supplied v quickly which were the only competitor but they had a U value of 1.7 where these had a U value of 1.2 at only about £300 more.
So I was happy, paid the half up front, all was good.
A couple of weeks later i got an email saying he had made them and would arrange delivery once i paid the other half. I was a little surprised as i had thought if i paid half up front i would pay the other half on delivery. I asked a couple of people who agreed with me but I was desperate to get the doors in asap so I decided to pay by credit card to have some payment protection.
I had paid the first installment by bank transfer so i emailed Bernie back and said i had not expected to pay the balance until delivery but that was OK but i was going to pay the other half by credit card.
This is where my problems started. I got a very abusive email from Bernie. He said why on earth would he deliver doors that were not fully paid for, I could not even order a tin of beans from Tesco and get them delivered without full payment. He said i was calling him dishonest and because of this he would not accept credit card payments, and much more that cannot be repeated. I checked the website, it clearly states all credit cards accepted. I wrote back saying the website said credit cards were accepted and i didnt see the problem. This lead to a more and more abusive back and forth.
I was trapped, the only other doors i could source would also have to be made, it would delay the build further, the weather as you know was freezing and there was no way to secure the house against the weather or intruders until the doors came. I had paid up front half the money so i couldnt really even afford to buy others unless i got this money back. Bernie knowing this said if i didnt make a bank transfer asap he would refuse to let me have the doors and did say he would give the money back, although his attitude suggested this would be over his dead body. As all i wanted was the doors i decided to do the bank transfer and hope things turned out well.
Anyway a week or so later i got a terse email saying the doors were being delivered on Thursday evening, it would be late as doors were being delivered in the Midlands first and they were coming from Scotland. I arranged to be off work early to accept the delivery and arranged with the builders to fit the doors on Friday. On the Wednesday night I got an email saying the doors would be coming next week instead as they were delivering some other doors to London and this customer now wanted them next week instead of Thursday. I wrote back and reminded him he had charged me an extra £100 for express delivery so i wouldnt have to wait for other deliveries in my area. This lead to more abusive emails.
Anyway eventually the doors arrived the following week after many abusive emails where he said he would not deliver them as i was a terrible person. The doors had the locks machined in the wrong place but the delivery men worked for the company and did re machine the locks into the door frame although this left a rather messy patch of wood filler. The lock to secure the doors was missing and the delivery men said they would arrange one to be sent. A few days later a lock came, it was the wrong one and didnt fit the doors. I got the builder to contact the company as all i got was abuse when trying to contact them. Bernie apparently said the correct lock would be sent. 6 weeks later we are still waiting and the doors remain unsecured.
The doors have rubbery gaskets that seal them which have been applied poorly and do not quite reach the top of the doors in two places, leaving small gaps at the top. This rather makes a mockery of the u values.
So i emailed the company again. I said my complaints were
1 - I was still waiting for the locks to secure the doors
2 - The seals to the doors were incorrectly applied and left gaps and i wanted to know what they were going to do to correct this
3 - I had paid an extra £100, well actually £120 as he applied VAT to this apparently, for express delivery and had not recieved express delivery so i expected this to be refunded.
4- I mentioned i was not happy that the doors were sent without any sort of catch to hold the door. Even the cheapest doorset included these and wondered whether this was a mistake they were not included.
I got a lot of email abuse and not much more. I think Bernie emails in the evenings after I suspect drinking heavily which probably doesnt help.
So i have paid a lot of money for a door set that is faulty, doesnt close except when propped shut with a brick, is full of woodfiller due to incorrect machining and i dont know what to do.
Can i go to the small claims court. Could i get some other doors made and then ask Living design to take theirs back and reclaim the cost of the doors and the cost of fitting and removal.
To be honest i suspect Bernie is probably sliding into bankrupcy, well anyone who runs a business that way must go bankrupt eventually. I dont especially want to add to his misery but i also cannot afford to be ripped off and end up with rubbish doors that let a draft in. But also i guess it means if i got a judgement against him he would probably not pay due to bankrupcy so of no help to either of us.
Does anyone have any advice?
I would like some advice with this and apologies for the length of this.
I was going to buy some ready made bifold doors for my extension. However at the last minute it turned out the lintel the structural surveyor had specified was not strong enough to accommodate a top hung door so i needed to find another door.
I then tried everywhere to get an off the peg bottom rolling bifold door and it turned out that for some reason all of the ready made doors were top hung. And all of the bespoke doors could be bottom rolling but most took about 12 weeks to make and deliver and the build could not continue and the house could not be secured until the doors were fitted.
Anyway i rang around every company i could find and eventually came across Living design bifolds (foldingtimberdoors.com)
I spoke to the owner Bernie who couldnt have been more helpful. I explained my predicament, he said he could have them made in just a few weeks if i paid half as a down payment within a couple of days as he had a production run going through then. He said that delivery was included in the price but if i wanted them asap he knew he had a delivery in the midlands in about 3 weeks and would deliver mine with this. He would normally wait until he had another set to deliver in the same area so if i wanted them ASAP he would charge me £100 towards the extra fuel costs of delivery which seemed very fair.
So far so good. The doors looked good on the website, for bespoke the price was reasonable although about 50% more than off the peg but i couldnt source off the peg bottom rolling doors. And even better they had a really good U value. I had found some bottom rolling aluminium doors which could also be supplied v quickly which were the only competitor but they had a U value of 1.7 where these had a U value of 1.2 at only about £300 more.
So I was happy, paid the half up front, all was good.
A couple of weeks later i got an email saying he had made them and would arrange delivery once i paid the other half. I was a little surprised as i had thought if i paid half up front i would pay the other half on delivery. I asked a couple of people who agreed with me but I was desperate to get the doors in asap so I decided to pay by credit card to have some payment protection.
I had paid the first installment by bank transfer so i emailed Bernie back and said i had not expected to pay the balance until delivery but that was OK but i was going to pay the other half by credit card.
This is where my problems started. I got a very abusive email from Bernie. He said why on earth would he deliver doors that were not fully paid for, I could not even order a tin of beans from Tesco and get them delivered without full payment. He said i was calling him dishonest and because of this he would not accept credit card payments, and much more that cannot be repeated. I checked the website, it clearly states all credit cards accepted. I wrote back saying the website said credit cards were accepted and i didnt see the problem. This lead to a more and more abusive back and forth.
I was trapped, the only other doors i could source would also have to be made, it would delay the build further, the weather as you know was freezing and there was no way to secure the house against the weather or intruders until the doors came. I had paid up front half the money so i couldnt really even afford to buy others unless i got this money back. Bernie knowing this said if i didnt make a bank transfer asap he would refuse to let me have the doors and did say he would give the money back, although his attitude suggested this would be over his dead body. As all i wanted was the doors i decided to do the bank transfer and hope things turned out well.
Anyway a week or so later i got a terse email saying the doors were being delivered on Thursday evening, it would be late as doors were being delivered in the Midlands first and they were coming from Scotland. I arranged to be off work early to accept the delivery and arranged with the builders to fit the doors on Friday. On the Wednesday night I got an email saying the doors would be coming next week instead as they were delivering some other doors to London and this customer now wanted them next week instead of Thursday. I wrote back and reminded him he had charged me an extra £100 for express delivery so i wouldnt have to wait for other deliveries in my area. This lead to more abusive emails.
Anyway eventually the doors arrived the following week after many abusive emails where he said he would not deliver them as i was a terrible person. The doors had the locks machined in the wrong place but the delivery men worked for the company and did re machine the locks into the door frame although this left a rather messy patch of wood filler. The lock to secure the doors was missing and the delivery men said they would arrange one to be sent. A few days later a lock came, it was the wrong one and didnt fit the doors. I got the builder to contact the company as all i got was abuse when trying to contact them. Bernie apparently said the correct lock would be sent. 6 weeks later we are still waiting and the doors remain unsecured.
The doors have rubbery gaskets that seal them which have been applied poorly and do not quite reach the top of the doors in two places, leaving small gaps at the top. This rather makes a mockery of the u values.
So i emailed the company again. I said my complaints were
1 - I was still waiting for the locks to secure the doors
2 - The seals to the doors were incorrectly applied and left gaps and i wanted to know what they were going to do to correct this
3 - I had paid an extra £100, well actually £120 as he applied VAT to this apparently, for express delivery and had not recieved express delivery so i expected this to be refunded.
4- I mentioned i was not happy that the doors were sent without any sort of catch to hold the door. Even the cheapest doorset included these and wondered whether this was a mistake they were not included.
I got a lot of email abuse and not much more. I think Bernie emails in the evenings after I suspect drinking heavily which probably doesnt help.
So i have paid a lot of money for a door set that is faulty, doesnt close except when propped shut with a brick, is full of woodfiller due to incorrect machining and i dont know what to do.
Can i go to the small claims court. Could i get some other doors made and then ask Living design to take theirs back and reclaim the cost of the doors and the cost of fitting and removal.
To be honest i suspect Bernie is probably sliding into bankrupcy, well anyone who runs a business that way must go bankrupt eventually. I dont especially want to add to his misery but i also cannot afford to be ripped off and end up with rubbish doors that let a draft in. But also i guess it means if i got a judgement against him he would probably not pay due to bankrupcy so of no help to either of us.
Does anyone have any advice?
0
Comments
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Is he a limited company?You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0
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I dont know, the website looks slick and glossy at first sight but i suspect it is a very small company in reality.0
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Whats the company name? If you check on companies house website, it should tell you what kind of company he is if he's registered.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0
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Business Overview
Living Design Uk Limited is an Active business incorporated in Scotland on 1st January 1970. Their business activity is recorded as Joinery Installation. Living Design Uk Limited is run by 1 current members. and 1 company secretary. 1 shareholders own the total shares within the company. It is not part of a group.
The latest Annual Accounts submitted to Companies House for the year up to 31/03/2012 reported 'cash at bank' of £8,822, 'liabilities' worth £119,997, 'net worth' of £-24,246 and 'assets' worth £44,182. Living Design Uk Limited's risk score was amended on 31/12/2012.
Company Register
Status
Registered date -
Company number
Type
Country of registration
Previous Names
No previous names.
Company Accounts
Category Total Exemption Small
Date filed up to 31/03/2012
Next due date 31/12/2013
Year end date 31st March
Auditor Name Not provided
Annual Returns
Date filed up to 16/03/20130
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