argghhh!! Hubby getting twitchy!!

Half_way

If hubby is getting twitch then take a look through the letter chains thread find out which ones your on and play snap.

As for the 'appeal' - ( call it a challenge, or dispute ) you could go with that, but in my opinion its a little long winded, and will probably be refused.

something shorter and sweeter to generate a popla code may be better

"To whom this may concern at UKCPS As the registered Keeper of Car XXXXXXXX I am writing to complain against the Parking Charge issued by your firm UKPCS on (insert Date) at the ****** retail Car Park your charge notice is completly groundless and your terms and conditions are unenforcable.
As such I shall not be paying this charge, and you must now cancell it and cease and desist demanding any sum of money from me, as none is owed.
If you do not do this then you must send me a POPLA code imediatly, so that it can be challenged appropiatly, please note that the decision of POPLA is only binding upon the car park company and not the motorist/registered keeper, goodbye."

Stroma

Please ensure you get the company name correct its UKCPS . But I fail to see how this will work, if they say its to late to go to popla there is little chance of an appeal working .

Penguin123

thanks for the replies
Stroma.
I believe i do have time to appeal to popla as advice further up the thread says the the appeal time is restarted as the letter to registered keeper has just been received and the RK may not have been the driver and thus would have been unaware of the parking charge (as was I as there was no ticket left on the car)

Half- way - I am assuming i send the first letter to the parking company and then a longer defence to Popla?

And yes will make sure i get the company name right:rotfl:

Coupon-mad

Penguin123 wrote: »

thanks for the replies
Stroma.
I believe i do have time to appeal to popla as advice further up the thread says the the appeal time is restarted as the letter to registered keeper has just been received and the RK may not have been the driver and thus would have been unaware of the parking charge (as was I as there was no ticket left on the car)

Half- way - I am assuming i send the first letter to the parking company and then a longer defence to Popla?

And yes will make sure i get the company name right:rotfl:

I like your appeal letter, it covers a lot of ground and of course UKCPS will reject it! But that's part of the fun as they will then have to send you a POPLA code, and at that stage we can add more to that appeal anyway.

I noticed a typo = 'unenforceable' needs an L.

Of course the registered keeper can appeal, that's what the NTK is for (even if UKCPS haven't bothered to make this clear, which is a good thing for your future POPLA appeal). The driver's chance to appeal was the fake PCN - if it existed... The registered keeper's chance to appeal is the NTK.

Does the NTK include an email addy for UKCPS? Initially, deliberately try emailing your appeal and then read the auto-reponse you will get back. Print out a copy as that will give you more grounds for appeal. It will say 'appeals have to be sent by post'. So basically again they mislead people and try to avoid appeals being considered in time for POPLA.

Call their bluff by then posting your appeal (normal 1st class stamp plus get a certificate of posting at the PO Counter).

See this thread for a list of BPA CoP breaches spotted by a poster on pepipoo re UKCPS:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=76061&st=0

and this pepipoo one where I posted as SchoolRunMum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78018

See post #14 where I gave some links to help the person start digging the dirt ready for POPLA and also a suggestion that you/they should also send a copy of the complaint/appeal at the same time to the Managing Agent of the Retail Park with a short but assertive covering letter. UKCPS have been kicked off retail park sites before so the more complaints about them to the owner/agent of the Retail Centres, the better.

Penguin123

thanks for the help. i revisited the car park this morning to take pictures.

The signage does state that parking and going off site will result in a charge but the signs look new so am not sure whether that wording was there when i parked. Does this affect point 3 in my complaint letter?

I met a man (oooer) in the car park who said that he had been getting letters and had been ignoring them. Whislt we were chatting a man in a van turned up and watched us - i think he was from UKCPS- is there any way of checking this out? He was quite intimidating looking so i kept to the public path when taking photos

Anyway the man i met said that there were not enough signs in the car park and that i could use this as evidence to complain about the signs- there were 6 and there wasn't one next to the walkway which most people would use to leave the car park- could i use the "not mitigating loss" argument ?

There's no email address on the letter , it does state that due to data protection there is no public access to the registered office- that seems mad, what about council buildings etc ?

Will redraft tonight ready for posting tomorrow morning

Coupon-mad

Penguin123 wrote: »

thanks for the help. i revisited the car park this morning to take pictures.

The signage does state that parking and going off site will result in a charge but the signs look new so am not sure whether that wording was there when i parked. Does this affect point 3 in my complaint letter?

I met a man (oooer) in the car park who said that he had been getting letters and had been ignoring them. Whislt we were chatting a man in a van turned up and watched us - i think he was from UKCPS- is there any way of checking this out? He was quite intimidating looking so i kept to the public path when taking photos

Anyway the man i met said that there were not enough signs in the car park and that i could use this as evidence to complain about the signs- there were 6 and there wasn't one next to the walkway which most people would use to leave the car park- could i use the "not mitigating loss" argument ?

There's no email address on the letter , it does state that due to data protection there is no public access to the registered office- that seems mad, what about council buildings etc ?

Will redraft tonight ready for posting tomorrow morning

The registered office isn't where they trade from! :rotfl:

They seem to trade out of the back of a caravan behind a pub in Leeds! See post #17 here to see the sort of firm you are dealing with here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=4433355

And I have now looked closer at the Keeper letter in that thread I linked before and I take back what I said earlier about not seeing a BPA breach. I do think it misleads you as it looks as though you are too late to appeal, according to the wording shown on this thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78018

So add that in as well. Does it actually admit on the back that the rk can appeal? Even if it does it's misleading on the front so I WOULD allege a BPA breach on that point too.

Do make sure copies go to the landowner/managing agent of the site. UKCPS got told to cancel another one today, I seem to recall reading earlier!

Penguin123

lol- the back of the letter is blank:rotfl:

Interestingly having looked at the letter in the link you posted that letter has an email address on it, mine doesn't.

This is my second draft
Dear Sir or madam,
As the registered Keeper of Car XXXXXXXX I am writing to complain against the Parking Charge issued by your firm UKPCS reference number xxxxxx on (insert Date) at the ****** retail Car Park for the alleged breached stated- Driver/passenger observed leaving site.

The basis on which i am refusing to pay are thus:
1) The amount of the charge is disproportionate to the loss incurred by UKPCS there fore I require UKPCS to demonstrate that this charge is a legitimate pre-estimate of loss.

2) UKPCS claim to have authority to issue parking charge notices in this car park therefore I require you to produce the contract that gives them that authority.

3) The number of signs and their positioning in the car park is inadequate

4)The reason stated- Driver /passenger observed leaving the site not a valid reason for issuing a charge as car parking is provided by this carpark for XXXXXXX store for which leaving the car park is essential in order to visit said store.


4) 5)UKPCS have breached of BPA Code of Practice paragraph 22.2 which says:

Whenever you issue a parking charge notice you must tell drivers about the arrangements for resolving complaints, challenges or appeals. These include:
• your procedures for dealing informally with challenges by the driver about the parking charge notice or any matter in it
• the arrangements for independent appeal to POPLA.

Drivers should first use your procedures for resolving complaints, challenges or appeals, before being able to refer them to an independent appeal. You should tell drivers at what stage an independent appeal to POPLA becomes available.

These details were not stated on the Notice to Keeper I received.

I look forward to receiving notification that the Penalty Charge XXXXX has been cancelled and I am no longer required to pay the amount detailed in it.

Should i ask for the Popla code or not?
Also wondering whether i am giving UKCPS too much information and should hold this back in case i need to go to popla (who am i kidding, of course it will go to popla judging by the posts on here!!).

Thanks for all the help,will be sending the letter tomorrow and wait with bated breath the cancellation of the charge;)

Coupon-mad

You don't have to ask for the POPLA code, especially as you've written it as a complaint for the landowner/agent as well. Should be interesting and if they don't cancel the fake PCN by virtue of you rattling the landowner's cage. There are almost certainly more breaches we can add in along with other points for POPLA but they can wait...

Penguin123

A huge thanks to all the posters on here who have helped.

I drafted a letter to go to UKCPS and was planning to send a copy to the managing agents.
I phoned the managing agents and after a bit of a runaround was phoned back by the person in charge of the car park.
I explained I wanted the address to write to in order to complain about the charge and the agent said to send the parking notice to them by email and they would get it cancelled.
I am pleased to say that I received confirmation this afternoon that the charge has been cancelled.

In my email I did state that I felt that UKCPS was intimidating and off putting to shoppers . I also stated that it was impossible to comply with their notices (about not leaving the site) due to the position of one of the stores , however these points were not addressed in the return email.

In some ways it is shame that the complaint did not go any further but at least the agents are aware that they will receive complaints if this practice continues.

Am happy to put my draft letter up if it helps anyone

Half_way

Nice result, one minor word of caution though, some of the parkign companies will continue to chase after the landowner/car park owner has 'cancelled' the charge.
If you get any response form them, then keep us posted.
Also educate you hubby, freinds, family and any one else that you may know about the private parking industry - spread the word.