Wife refused HB because she is not working and not on JSA

dktreesea

epitome wrote: »

I can't understand why you ignore people telling you that you are wrong, read #100

The HRT doesn't apply to everyone who comes to the UK. Specifically, the following groups are exempt from the HRT test:

EEA nationals and their family members (including nationals of Bulgaria and Romania) in self-employment, including periods when they are temporarily not working due to sickness

EEA nationals and their family members (including nationals of Bulgaria and Romania in authorised work) engaged in employment

The only way for British nationals to be exempt from the HRT test, if returning from abroad after living elsewhere (as opposed to just going overseas for a holiday), is to go and live in an EEA country for over a year, get an EEA family permit if they have members of their family who are not EEA nationals, and then come into Britain from the EEA country.

Housing_Benefit_Officer

I have refused British Citizens Housing Benefit as they failed the Habitual Residence Test as I considered their main home to be abroad and they were only popping back to visit relatives.

epitome

dktreesea wrote: »

The HRT doesn't apply to everyone who comes to the UK. Specifically, the following groups are exempt from the HRT test:

EEA nationals and their family members (including nationals of Bulgaria and Romania) in self-employment, including periods when they are temporarily not working due to sickness

EEA nationals and their family members (including nationals of Bulgaria and Romania in authorised work) engaged in employment

The only way for British nationals to be exempt from the HRT test, if returning from abroad after living elsewhere (as opposed to just going overseas for a holiday), is to go and live in an EEA country for over a year, get an EEA family permit if they have members of their family who are not EEA nationals, and then come into Britain from the EEA country.

Those exemptions don't apply to JSA, ESA and IS.

If you want to say you want the HRT to apply to HB the same as it applies to other benefits then I agree with you, but you need to stop implying in your posts that there is no HRT test for new arrivals thinking they can come here and claim benefits.

dktreesea

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

When I returned from abroad (non-EU), I was told that I couldn't get any kind of help for 3 years. I wanted to go to college to get a diploma that would be the first step in continuing the job I had been doing overseas.

Since I couldn't get help (and this despite being a British national who had been a taxpayer, and had paid NI for many years from abroad), I got a job and studied in the evening for the 3 year diploma.

Any reason why you can't do this 1878? Just being practical here.

If you go onto any expat site, there are heaps of threads advising Brits how to come back here avoiding the exact situation you found yourself in.

The only way I know of to be able to study here for free if you have been away a long time is to come back here after a period of residence, preferably working or self employed, in an EEA country.

It's outrageous that returning British nationals should have more stringent restrictions imposed on them than EEA nationals and their families coming to live here who have never paid into the UK system. If EEA nationals coming here for the first time are exempted from the HRT, why should British nationals, including those who have paid into the system during their previous period of residence in Britain, be subject to it?

Housing_Benefit_Officer

dktreesea wrote: »

If you go onto any expat site, there are heaps of threads advising Brits how to come back here avoiding the exact situation you found yourself in.

The only way I know of to be able to study here for free if you have been away a long time is to come back here after a period of residence, preferably working or self employed, in an EEA country.

It's outrageous that returning British nationals should have more stringent restrictions imposed on them than EEA nationals and their families coming to live here who have never paid into the UK system. If EEA nationals coming here for the first time are exempted from the HRT, why should British nationals, including those who have paid into the system during their previous period of residence in Britain, be subject to it?

Why should the British Taxpayer pay for these ex-pats who have moved abroad, made their lives abroad, have no ties to this country anymore but expect the taxpayer to pay their bed and board when they pop back for an extended holiday?

epitome

dktreesea wrote: »

It's outrageous that returning British nationals should have more stringent restrictions imposed on them than EEA nationals and their families coming to live here who have never paid into the UK system. If EEA nationals coming here for the first time are exempted from the HRT, why should British nationals, including those who have paid into the system during their previous period of residence in Britain, be subject to it?

There's actually no difference between them, if what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt) If an EEA citizen/or a UK citizen who have been living in Hong Kong for a year or so and they come to UK to claim they will be treated exactly the same, they will maybe both fail, but to be honest the UK citizen will have a better chance of passing HRT because they may have ties to the UK that the EEA national doesn't have

If a UK citizen who has been living in EEA comes to Britain on the same plane as an EEA citizen from that same counry and they have both been living in that EEA country for a while they will be treated the same

If an UK citizen and an EEA citizen who have been living and working in New York both come back to an EEA country for a year and then both come to UK they will be treated the same.

There is no disadvantage in the HRT test to a UK citizen.

dktreesea

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

I have refused British Citizens Housing Benefit as they failed the Habitual Residence Test as I considered their main home to be abroad and they were only popping back to visit relatives.

Provided they had come into Britain from an EEA country, after a period of residing and working there, and got work/because self employed upon arrival, they, like any other EEA national, would have been exempt from the HRT. It would have been sufficient for them to declare their intention to live permanently in the UK on the date of their arrival, and they would have been able to receive housing benefit as soon as they had rented a property and could produce the lease document.

dktreesea

epitome wrote: »

There's actually no difference between them, if what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt) If an EEA citizen/or a UK citizen who have been living in Hong Kong for a year or so and they come to UK to claim they will be treated exactly the same,

If a UK citizen who has been living in EEA comes to Britain on the same plane as an EEA citizen from that same counry and they have both been living in that EEA country for a while they will be treated the same

If an UK citizen and an EEA citizen who have been living and working in New York both come back to an EEA country for a year and then both come to UK they will be treated the same.

There is no disadvantage in the HRT test to a UK citizen.

But this surely is a case of form over substance. The intention of the government is presumably to make everyone have to satisfy the HRT before they get access to benefits. Instead we have one group, EEA nationals and their families (including non EEA national members) who are exempt from the HRT provided they come to Britain directly from another EEA country.

For British nationals, they can become part of that group, but they have to live in an EEA country first, so move, say, from New York, to the South of France (may as well be warm) then to Britain, rather than moving directly from New York to the UK. That is a hardship for them, due to the language barrier, compared to an EEA national coming over here from their home country. Why should Brits have a harder job gaining access to social security than other EEA nationals?

We can't afford our welfare system. Not even for Brits, let alone for the rest of the EEA. Cameron can drag his feet all he likes, but if he ever wants to balance the books, sooner or later he will need to take a leaf out of countries' books like France (no income support until you have spent all your savings) and/or Spain (no social security until you have paid into the system for a certain length of time) or even go a step further and be like Australia (no benefits at all if you are self employed after the one year set up period, no matter what you earn).

clemmatis

dktreesea wrote: »

But this surely is a case of form over substance. The intention of the government is presumably to make everyone have to satisfy the HRT before they get access to benefits. Instead we have one group, EEA nationals and their families (including non EEA national members) who are exempt from the HRT provided they come to Britain directly from another EEA country.

For British nationals, they can become part of that group, but they have to live in an EEA country first, so move, say, from New York, to the South of France (may as well be warm) then to Britain, rather than moving directly from New York to the UK. That is a hardship for them, due to the language barrier, compared to an EEA national coming over here from their home country. Why should Brits have a harder job gaining access to social security than other EEA nationals?

They don't have a harder job. They have to come from another EEA country and so do other EEA nationals. Why is this wrong?

. Cameron can drag his feet all he likes, but if he ever wants to balance the books, sooner or later he will need to take a leaf out of countries' books like France (no income support until you have spent all your savings) and/or Spain (no social security until you have paid into the system for a certain length of time) or even go a step further and be like Australia (no benefits at all if you are self employed after the one year set up period, no matter what you earn).

That would pose no problem for the EU so long as it applied equally to all EEA nationals.

dktreesea

clemmatis wrote: »

They don't have a harder job. They have to come from another EEA country and so do other EEA nationals. Why is this wrong?

"Harder" in the sense that to live in another country presumably the British family would need to support themselves. That implies that the one working/seeking work would need a certain level of language skills.

People going to school in the EU often have the option of learning English as their second language when they are growing up. What opportunity is there for children in our schools to learn Czech, or Polish, or any of the Scandanavian languages? (I only pick these languages because the countries where they are spoke are, imho, nice places to live.)

Also, for example, Polish people coming to Britain have several advantages, compared to if we were to travel to live in Poland. Polish is not only widely spoken here. There is a vast amount of knowledge about what people are entitled to upon arrival and how to access our social welfare system. Just because they work doesn't mean they don't claim child benefit, child tax credit, working tax credit and housing benefit.