landlord- how to refresh a tenancy agreement

tbs624

Noting that you are a Scottish LL

alberto2012 - you are clearly out of your depth so my suggestion would be that you get yourself signed up to the Scottish Association of LLs (SAL)

The membership fee will be tax deductible ( you are declaring your rental income to HMRC of course ?).

You may also find it useful to look at the courses available via http://www.landlordaccreditationscotland.com/

In the meantime, if you are hell bent on seeking repossession at the end of the Fixed Term then you may like to read up on S33 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988 and NTQs, and also acquaint yourself with your S11 obligations - see the Homelessness etc (Scotland) Act 2003 ). You say this Fixed Term ends in June - note that you need to give a clear two months' notice.

The best time, however, to do such research into all of your rights and obligations ( along with those of your potential Ts) is before you even begin to let a property rather than waiting until you are in the doodoo.

Do you get your rent paid on time and in full? Does the T look after the property? If yes, you may want to reconsider your proposed strategy - if you end up with a void period you have effectively kissed goodbye to any potential gain made by increasing the rent.

If you wanted a tenancy deposit you should have made sure it had been paid before the T was given access to the property.

Perhaps artfullodger ( a LL of Scottish properties) will join the thread and give you some further guidance

theartfullodger

Can you prove (eg dated & timed & witnessed both AT5 & SaT) you served an AT5 before tenant signed original SaT?? If not then you don't have a SaT but an AT & tenant will be v v difficult to evict.

Even T signing new SaT won't change it - it will still be an AT.

You've been given good advice: Follow it!!!

neas

theartfullodger wrote: »

Can you prove (eg dated & timed & witnessed both AT5 & SaT) you served an AT5 before tenant signed original SaT?? If not then you don't have a SaT but an AT & tenant will be v v difficult to evict.

Even T signing new SaT won't change it - it will still be an AT.

You've been given good advice: Follow it!!!

Can you elaborate for us none scots what these two docs are and what the issue is if provided in a different order?

Certainly if this was english kicking out a tenant who is already on benefits will most likely result in the following:

1. Tenant gets funny, damages property and/or stops paying rent
2. COuncil adviss them to stay put..
3. Eviction day comes, they don't leave you have to pay to court to evict.
4. 2 months pass you get eviction order after incuring court costs.
5. Get property back, £1k worth of damage, £1k+ unpaid rent and tenant is given a council house and happy as a pig in !!!!..

Net result you are out of pocket by more than the original deposit amount!

Being a professional landlord is cool huh?

redskyatnight_2

alberto2012 wrote: »

Hi.

My tenants 6month/short assured tenancy is due to end in june.

The current one states it can/will continue on a month to month basis given its not terminated by either party.

The tenant currently wishes to continue.

I am happy for it to continue also but would like to make some changes to tje agreement.. (1. Secure a deposit this time! Doh..)
(2. Maybe increase rent. Boooo)

Is this a fairly simple and legal process to carry out?

Thanks for any help

I have 3 points

1/ You shouldn't be a landlord. You can't seem to do things correctly, and seem to be blaming everyone but yourself for your mistakes.

2/ I'm glad you're not my landlord

3/ You don't have a case IMO. You can't just shove a new tenancy agreement in someone's face after 6 months with a rent increase and a demand for a deposit that you couldn't be arsed to ask for first time round.

Personally I think when this tenant leaves, you should sell up, as you don't give the impression that you're capable of being a landlord.

tbs624

neas wrote: »

Can you elaborate for us none scots what these two docs are and what the issue is if provided in a different order?

AT5 is a Notice under s32 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988 - correct service of an AT5 is necessary for a tenancy to be an SAT (short assured tenancy) as opposed to an assured tenancy which affords different rights to the T.

See this for explanation of main difference

theartfullodger

And 32.2(b) says to be a SaT AT5 must be served "before the creation of the assured tenancy" ... an SaT being but a special form of AT.

A SaT permits a landlord to evict tenant for no reason at all, even a perfect tenant. A simple AT does not - so if AT5 not served validly them landlord usually needs to prove substantial rent arrears.

Scottish legal system is different from England's, sometimes better, sometimes not:

Sainte mhor!

[Deleted User]

The law may be different in Scotland, but I was in a position (I DID pay a full month's deposit though) where my landlord was insisting on me signing a new two year tenancy agreement (after the initial years tenancy was up and we were into a periodic tenancy) and threatened to evict me if I didn't. I went to my local housing department, and they said that a landlord had every right to expect a tenant to sign a tenancy agreement and they would find me voluntarily homeless if I didn't sign a tenancy agreement. The landlord did at one point give me a month's notice to move out. I was a perfectly good tenant, never have been behind in the rent.., the tenancy agreement he wanted me to sign had a few strange clauses in it, totally in his favour and I felt very uneasy signing it.

But in the end I had to. But I spent some time in hospital because of the stress (have a slight heart condition). It was a nightmare situation. And while tenants are supposed to have 'rights' it doesn't seem that these exist in reality. Being on the street with two children, one with special needs seemed a very close possibility.

So.., I guess you could ask for a depost that you didn't ask for when your tenant originally moved in. You could evict her if she doesn't sign the new agreement and/or agree to pay a deposit. But have you stopped to think about where she will get a deposit from if she's a benefit recipient? Are you that willing to lose what seems to be a good tenant? The time to specify a deposit was when she first enquired about the property. As others have said, if she is paying rent on time, and the property is in good condition.., is it worth the hassle of going through the process you will need to to get a deposit.., or to evict the tenant?

The mistake was yours, not your tenant's. If your tenant was damaging the property or not paying rent, eviction would seem a justifiable thing, but in this situation?

And my landlord.., well he had a tenant who insulated the roof, put a new bathroom in to a high standard, and would have done other things to improve the house. But he can whistle for anything other than normal wear and tear repairs now. And as soon as I can move out, I will.

alberto2012

Ok,

My situation is:

- My wife and I bought a family home for us and the kids(flat too small)
- Flat could not sell (owned by father in law)
- Decided to let out flat (id be acting agent)
- Tenant who approached us was receiving Housing benefit

During this time I was extremely busy getting new house ready /christmas / work / 2 young kids... all the while trying to learn the correct procedures on letting.

I have attempted to do everything by the book.

-I issued tenant with AT5, prior to giving Short assured Tenancy agreement.
-Carried out gas safety certificates for boiler and hob.
-Provided boiler breakdown cover
-Carried out Energy performance certificate.
-Registered with local council (Landlord registration)
-Registerd with Inland revenue

I have been more than fair to the tenant:
- DROPPED the price of the potential rental income
- Agreed to pay the factor fees with housing (building repairs etc)

Is there anything I missed that should have been done to provide someone with a very well maintained property??

Im not a rogue landlord, and not looking to make this "a business"

The council eventually told me "they are not liable to pay the deposit" ok, fair enough lesson learned...

The also told me "yes, the tenant could potentially run off with your two last payments.." And they take nothing to do with it. lesson learned...

So with this, I felt I needed some security if the tenancy was to continue and give me a little peace of mind... Incase something happened...

With witnesses present,
I asked the tenant if she would be willing to get the payments directed to myself from the council (To which she originally agreed, but then suspiciously changed her mind?)
She refused, which of course she is entitled to do.


I asked for a deposit as per the Tenancy agreement (even to pay in small installments) or even to waive the deposit should the payments come to myself from the council...
She refused.

I have been more than fair to her upto this point. But she refuses to meet me half way.

Hence me coming on here to try find out some answers to certain questions. To see if there is any correct way / options on how to deal with this.

I dont intend to "kick her out", or force her to do/sign anything.
Just looking to see what my legal options are...

Yes I may not know EVERY legal clause... but hey, who does?
I know of 'landlords' in my area who have not done everything by the book!
Im sure we all do...

I dont feel Im "out my depth", or "I shouldnt be a landlord" or "youre lucky you have a tenant" etc etc .

Im sure all you clued up, seasoned professional landlords out there have learned from past experience, or advised from others past experiences.. good and bad.

I come on here and ask questions, and am very grateful when I get straight to the point/factual responses.
If my posts / questions irritate you. Please feel free not to answer.

Werdnal

But I don't understand what is still left unanswered from the 3 threads you have running on this situation. The reason people get a little impatient, if not annoyed, is that you still keep maintaining your situation - lack of time, not wanting to run this as a business, council not paying deposit etc, somehow justifies you now wanting to get your tenant to accept a new agreement putting right YOUR wrongs.

You are of course, as has been said several times here and in your other threads, perfectly legally entitled to offer your tenant a new agreement BUT, they do not have to sign it, and trying to weedle a deposit out of them now is likely to be nigh-on impossible.

Do you want this tenant to stay? If so, leave things as they are and sue them at the end for any loss or damages.

Do you want them to go? If so, evict, and start letting again with a proper tenancy agreement (and maybe take some of the advice given about courses etc).

You are perfectly entitled to ask your tenant to sign a new agreement putting right your omissions from the original one, but why alienate an already difficult tenant when you are unlikley to gain anything? You have already shown yourself to your tenant to be a little incompetent in the LL department - don't make yourself look any more foolish or naive and make them more likley to cause you further grief, damage, arrears etc. The trouble with tenants like this, is they tend to know more about the situation, their rights ... and inevitably your wrongs, than you do. Turning up with a new tenancy agreement might just inflame things even more, or just give them a good laugh at your expense ... I personally wouldn't give them any more ammo!

The choice seems to be yours ... let things lie, or evict!

zzzLazyDaisy

alberto2012 wrote: »

Ok,

My situation is:

- My wife and I bought a family home for us and the kids(flat too small)
- Flat could not sell (owned by father in law)
- Decided to let out flat (id be acting agent)

Im not a rogue landlord, and not looking to make this "a business".

I agree, you are not a rogue landlord. In fact you are not a landlord at all, your FiL is the landlord. You are just someone who is helping him to carry out his duties as a landlord. That means that the legal liability and responsibility falls on him to comply with landlord legislation and to declare the rental income to HMRC on a tax return each year. Of course the asset and rental income must also be declared if he is in receipt of any means tested benefit (pension credit, council tax benefit etc) since it is not your asset or income.