Termination due to health capability...advice please

chrissyr60

I was wondering if anyone can offer any advice please. I have been off long term sick and have received dismissal notice from my employers (local government) on grounds of health capability. The only reason I have been off so long (4 months when they started dismissal proceedings) is that I have been waiting for an appointment with a neurologist which has in fact only just come through. The termination date is 2nd May but I have an appeal meeting on 30th April. Ironically my hospital appointment is 1 day after my termination date! I have been advised to appeal on grounds that they started the 'minded to dismiss' too soon. Apart from the fact that I am Not hopeful about the appeal, I believed I would have been entitled to 5 weeks full notice pay where I have received part pay. I would also like to know if I would be entitled to claim outstanding annual leave (as asked in a members previous query). I have read conflicting things as some people say you can't be entitled to annual leave pay whilst claiming sick pay but on here I have seen that I should be entitled to it. I have 10 days annual leave remaining last years entitlement and Aprils annual leave. If my employers policy pay upto 12 months sick pay (6 full and 6 half) then why terminate me into 4 months. Two of my health problems are covered by the equalities act (disability related) yet they seem to have suddenly escalated the process. I realise that 4 months is a long time to be off sick but I have been unable to function let alone drive which I would need to do with the distance. I am certainly not out of work because I want to be, I am desperate to be sorted by specialist. My main worry is when applying for new jobs, when I have to put reason for leaving....termination! At my age it will be difficult to find a new job with that on my cv.

chrissyr60

Thank you Judypink, that is appreciated especially as my union rep far from fills me with confidence regards the appeal.

polgara

What was the opinion of Occupational Health about the timescales for you to be fit to work? Capability proceedings can take place if the employer has cause to believe that you will not be fit in a reasonable amount of time - you do not need to have exhausted the occupational sick pay scheme.

Notice and annual leave should be paid and I would advise you to contact your HR department to discuss asap.

chrissyr60

In January, occupational health said at that point I was unfit for work and that he would send to see me at a later date; I have not heard back from him as yet but at that point I had been off just 2 months and when I told him that I was really worried that I would lose my job, he actually said that the council don't normally even consider dismissal for at least 6-8 months, yet 4 months into it, they started procedures to dismiss me! My union rep is saying straight away that she doesn't hold up much hope so I feel she isn't going to put up much of a fight for me. It was bad enough that I had been made redundant from my previous job of 6 years within the council (due to restructure...they changed what was my graded post to include heavy manual work which I was unable to do making me unable to reapply for the post)' I went to this post but found the travel etc too much for me to cope with and it started impacting on my conditions.

polgara

Did you have a copy of the occupational health report as that may give more indication of the timescales. As he said ' council don't normally even consider dismissal for at least 6-8 months' but its all dependent on when he/you think you would be fit to return to work. When do you think you would have been fit?

All public sector organisations are having to review long term sickness cases as these impact on service delivery/other staff. Like it or not organisations spend a fortune on sickness and backfill and its public money.

What information was presented at the capability hearing? What did you say? What rationale did the hearing panel give in their termination letter?

chrissyr60

The occupational health didn't actually state any expected timescales but from that period of time, my health worsened whereby I had to be re-referred back to neurologist. During my sick leave I have had two meetings with HR and my line manager to discuss my progress and they wanted an actual imminent return date. but as I said to them, it all depended on my appointment coming through from specialist...I couldn't give them an actual return date as didn't have one but they knew it shouldn't have been too long away. I was told at the meeting that there would be a 'minded to dismiss' put in progress which would have given a 10 day cooling off period and then lead onto the termination. As I couldn't return in that 10 days, they sent a 5 week termination notice. As I said, I am appealing but don't hold any hope. I am questioning though that they have indicated to my union rep that I wasn't helping myself by not taking prescribed medication. Because I was upset at a doctors appointment, the doctor automatically wrote a prescription for antidepressants! She was another doctor who didn't understand my condition (apparently few doctors do) and put everything down to depression. Why do they do this, I was obviously upset at the prospect of losing my job and frustration of the situation. I believe that they are using this as an excuse to get rid of my quickly....surely no employer can dictate what medication you take. I know my doctor was wrong and these pills certainly wouldn't help my condition. I do take amitripyline which are to help as a muscle relaxant and to help me sleep but the pills this GP prescribed were no for that. Just to let you know, since your advice regarding full notice pay and annual leave pay, I have contacted payroll who initially said I was wrong, have agreed that I should get full pay and some of the annual leave carried over from last year. She did say though that my annual leave entitlement (full after 6 years) was above the statutory entitlement so I wouldn't receive all of the 10 days I had left and they would deduct bank holidays (even though I was on sick leave for at least 5 of those, but thank you very much for your help as every penny I am legally entitled to helps when being terminated due to ill health as I know I will have a problem finding work with that on my cv. Thank you.

UnionGirl

chrissyr60 wrote: »

Thank you Judypink, that is appreciated especially as my union rep far from fills me with confidence regards the appeal.

If you do seek assistance from another source, be aware that your Union will no longer be able to assist you in this matter.

Dogger69

judypink reported to the forum team for advertising. Her homepage is, by some bizarre coincidence, the company she has suggested the OP calls!

LannieDuck

Try https://www.redundancyforum.co.uk. The lawyer on there deals with employment issues beyond redundancy, and will be able to tell you exactly what your rights are, e.g. wrt full or partial payment.

ValHaller

LannieDuck wrote: »

Try www.redundancyforum.co.uk. The lawyer on there deals with employment issues beyond redundancy, and will be able to tell you exactly what your rights are, e.g. wrt full or partial payment.

Although this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4515905 indicates that the lawyer in question is the subject of controversy.

madvixen

Hi Chrissy,

Sorry to hear about your situation hun, I've been there myself and it's pretty lousy. You mention "conditions", is this a long standing illness? If so, are you covered by the Equality Act 2010?

The redundancy forum that a couple of people have mentioned is a very good port of call. SarEL really knows her stuff.