Direct debit account balance graph puzzling me

bye_bye_band_G

Can someone with a clear head help me here? EDF have just completed my DD annual review and say that my account balance should be zero at the time of review. Bearing in mind this is the end of the winter, I said that if my balance is zero now, this means I must be in credit throughout the 12 months of the year. ie I start to build up credit at this time of year, then use it all during the winter months, finally ending up at zero this time next year.
Now EDF have a graph they draw on their bills of a typical DD balance curve, and it shows the winter months in debit and the summer months in credit. So the customer owes them money for half the time, and they owe the customer money for the other half, which is fair.
Am I right in thinking that an annual review in the spring, with zero balance, is very unfavourable to me? And, if my annual review was in the autumn, with a zero balance then, that I would actually be in debit for the rest of the 12 months?
The EDF lady and I were on the phone for ever and a day, with me saying I would be in credit all year, and her saying I would only be in credit for half the year, as it should be. We had to agree to differ.
If someone clever can confirm to me that I'm right, I'll be more forceful with my point next time, and insist that I'm not going to be at zero in the Spring, but will calculate it so I'm at zero preferably in the Autumn, but at least in the middle of the Summer, which seems fairer to me.
Thanks!

Wywth

bye_bye_band_G wrote: »

Can someone with a clear head help me here? EDF have just completed my DD annual review and say that my account balance should be zero at the time of review. Bearing in mind this is the end of the winter, I said that if my balance is zero now, this means I must be in credit throughout the 12 months of the year. ie I start to build up credit at this time of year, then use it all during the winter months, finally ending up at zero this time next year.
Now EDF have a graph they draw on their bills of a typical DD balance curve, and it shows the winter months in debit and the summer months in credit. So the customer owes them money for half the time, and they owe the customer money for the other half, which is fair.
Am I right in thinking that an annual review in the spring, with zero balance, is very unfavourable to me? And, if my annual review was in the autumn, with a zero balance then, that I would actually be in debit for the rest of the 12 months?
The EDF lady and I were on the phone for ever and a day, with me saying I would be in credit all year, and her saying I would only be in credit for half the year, as it should be. We had to agree to differ.
If someone clever can confirm to me that I'm right, I'll be more forceful with my point next time, and insist that I'm not going to be at zero in the Spring, but will calculate it so I'm at zero preferably in the Autumn, but at least in the middle of the Summer, which seems fairer to me.
Thanks!

I don't think EDF say anywhere that the account should be zero at this time of the year.

What I think they say is that your monthly payments should aim to pay off your annual consumptiuon on the anniversary date.
EDF review the payments every 6 months with an aim to ensure this remains on target.

You get a 6% discount for agreeing to pay monthly by DD.

brewerdave

bye bye band G -You are spot on; the graph is a nonsense - the utility companies have all moved (as far as I'm aware) to a Spring balance -so you are in credit all year - by Sept or Oct its at its peak and it slowly decreases thru Winter to zero out ~ April /May.
They have done this ,so they say, to obey a directive from Govt/OFGEM to avoid customers being in debt for Utilities - If you have a zero balance in say,September then you are going to be in debt right the way thru Winter.

spiro

brewerdave wrote: »

They have done this ,so they say, to obey a directive from Govt/OFGEM to avoid customers being in debt for Utilities - If you have a zero balance in say,September then you are going to be in debt right the way thru Winter.

The reason for this could be that it wont matter what time of year you change supplier you wont have a large final to pay which you would have if you pay off your winter debit over the summer. Given the miserable interest rates and the level of DD discount I think them having the money make more sense to me than loosing a DD discount.

DragonQ

This is why I prefer to pay gas bills (with gas heating) on receipt of bill, and I am glad that Ebico doesn't penalise people for doing this (unlike the "big 6").

spiro

DragonQ wrote: »

This is why I prefer to pay gas bills (with gas heating) on receipt of bill, and I am glad that Ebico doesn't penalise people for doing this (unlike the "big 6").

The big 6 dont penalise you for paying on bill, they give a discount to those who pay by DD, there is a difference. We will have to see how this all changes when all suppliers have to have standing charge tariffs with a single price per unit for that tariff.

Wywth

spiro wrote: »

The big 6 dont penalise you for paying on bill, they give a discount to those who pay by DD, there is a difference.

That's right.

Ebico buy their energy from SSE, and effectively level out costs for everyone. What they say is they effectively use the discount customers who pay monthly by DD would otherwise receive to pay for the extra charge PPM customers would otherwise have to pay (which is about the same cost a customer on a stardard tariff paying on receipt of bill would pay)

spiro wrote: »

We will have to see how this all changes when all suppliers have to have standing charge tariffs with a single price per unit for that tariff.

I don't think it will change anything. Ebico have confirmed they have no intention of charging a daily standing charge

... and even if they were forced to, they say they are confident there are enough loopholes available to remain them to be able to offer a tariff with no standing charge ... unless the rules are tightened down so much that the restriction on the number of tariffs offered will be based on the supply licence, and as Ebico use the supply licence of SSE, that would effectively put them out of business, so restricting competition (along with all the other suppliers that use someone elses supply licence).
I'm not sure that is the aim, is it? To restrict competition in the market?

DragonQ

spiro wrote: »

The big 6 dont penalise you for paying on bill, they give a discount to those who pay by DD, there is a difference.

There is?

Wywth wrote: »

That's right.

Ebico buy their energy from SSE, and effectively level out costs for everyone. What they say is they effectively use the discount customers who pay monthly by DD would otherwise receive to pay for the extra charge PPM customers would otherwise have to pay (which is about the same cost a customer on a stardard tariff paying on receipt of bill would pay)

Yeah they just have some customers "subsidising" others. But if it still works out cheaper overall then that's fine with me. If it worked out even cheaper to pay by direct debit, I would, but they choose not to offer that so fair enough.

Wywth wrote: »

I don't think it will change anything. Ebico have confirmed they have no intention of charging a daily standing charge

Well they could just add a standing charge of 0.01p/day if they were really forced to.

Wywth

DragonQ wrote: »

Well they could just add a standing charge of 0.01p/day if they were really forced to.

But they won't. I repeat, Ebico have confirmed they have no intention of charging a daily standing charge.

Subject to final wording of any legislation, they have plans to continue to offer a tariff with no daily standing charge (and continue with single unit pricing)

wakeupalarm

It's not legislation that will force Ebico to introduce a standing charge, it will be the massive influx of low energy users switching from other energy companies.

Some people seem to think that low energy users equals low costs, it doesn't, and Ebico's costs will rise with little increase in revenue. Their business model won't be sustainable.

Cardew

wakeupalarm wrote: »

It's not legislation that will force Ebico to introduce a standing charge, it will be the massive influx of low energy users switching from other energy companies.

Some people seem to think that low energy users equals low costs, it doesn't, and Ebico's costs will rise with little increase in revenue. Their business model won't be sustainable.

I understand your point about a non-sustainable business model, but it doesn't follow that it will force Ebico to introduce a standing charge.

They can simply increase the unit(kWh) price until it becomes a sustainable business model.