Civil Parking Notice from CPP

Masrati

Hello all,

I received a Civil Parking Notice from The Car Parking Partnership yesterday morning for "parking in a residents bay without displaying a valid resident's permit" (Code 19)

Is it possible to fight this on any of the following grounds;
a) My mother who lives in the block of flats has never received information on how to obtain parking permits, nor was ever given any since moving in about a year ago.
b) I was parked in the clearly marked visitors bay, which obviously is not a resident's bay.
c) Other cars at the time were in contravention of the terms of usage for the car park (either not displaying a permit or parked in a disabled bay without displaying a disabled badge) and were not ticketed.

I have also read a lot of conflicting reports on this and other sites that it is safe to ignore the ticket and it will go no further. Is this true? Surely they can take it to civil court and secure a CCJ which I don't really want to risk, however I feel the ticket is blatantly unfair and being a student with no job don't really have the money to pay it anyway.

Thanks for any help

nigelbb

Appeal & when they refuse you then appeal to the "independent" body POPLA. This will cost CPP £27 & you are bound to win with a properly presented case. In fact as their case is clearly without merit they may even cancel the charge when you contact them if you insist that you want to appeal to POPLA. This shows them you are not a mug & will fight. Their protection racket only succeeds because people get frightened by their bullying.

The_Slithy_Tove

In all likelihood, your mother's lease (or landlord's lease if renting) won't mention parking permits etc, anyway, which would make the whole scheme an unwarranted imposition on her right to peaceful enjoyment of her property.

As for visitors spaces, then their claim about permits is, indeed, bogus. What do the signs say, and what do they say about using visitors spaces (not that a parking company is in a position to impose any conditions anyway, as I bet the landowner, i.e. the freeholder, hasn't given them permission to impose such charges - it'll be the management company who have unilaterally decided to do so).

Forget what other cars were or weren't doing. It's completely irrelevant.

If you really have read around these forums, you'll know that CCJs can't just be dished out willy nilly. Yes, they could take you to court (most unlikely), and they'd most likely lose. Even if they won, there is no CCJ if you pay up promptly. All so unlikely, it's not worth thinking about.

Whatever happens, DO NOT PAY. There are lots of winnable appeal points, particulalry if you choose to go down that route and take it to POPLA.

Masrati

Thanks both.

My mothers lease certainly wouldn't have mentioned any parking permits and I have also found no mention in the "booklet" supplied by the management company for the block in fact they don't even mention parking permits on their website at all! Not even in passing. Would this in itself be grounds to appeal?

I have mentioned the other cars as it feels like victimisation to have only selected my car when there were others around that would also have fallen foul of the same rule.

I have taken a picture of the bay I was parked in, which clearly shows the V (indicating visitor bay), should I take another picture of the other bays which have numbers instead just in case?

I have read the signs and it says nothing about visitors bays just that permits should be displayed at all times.

Thanks again

Also if I were to let it go and they chose to chase me in the courts how long could I feasibly drag it out for?

Coupon-mad

Yes it's a scam; no you mustn't pay it; and no they can't just get a CCJ and would lose if they ever tried a small claim.

First of all, if it was in Scotland the only advice is IGNORE but in England/Wales there's a choice of two approaches, IGNORE or APPEAL WELL to POPLA.

Here are two threads to help you decide whether to IGNORE or APPEAL, first of all this one shows you the CPP letter chain the registered keeper will get if you decide on the ignore option:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4541547

And here's one recent pepipoo thread about a different PPC in a residents car park with no permit displayed:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78026

As you can see, that poster started out as a newbie, took the advice to read up on all the breaches displayed by every PPC in this scam 'industry' and came up with a proper, full challenge for POPLA. In your case, only your points 1 and 2 could be added into all the other points that NitramA used in her appeal (most of which should relate to your case too).

You'll notice that a POPLA challenge isn't really an appeal about what you did wrong or right, more about what the PPC did wrong. All you need is one point that the PPC fail to refute and you'll win at POPLA.

And lastly, read the two 'POPLA' sticky threads at the top of the parking forum here on MSE. One shows you recent POPLA decisions that pretty much all win these days (the failed cases are the early ones) and the other is a link to a useful POPLA information website to explain what it's all about.

HTH, you won't be paying this. I would recommend the 'strong appeal' route.

Masrati

Thanks for that information however unfortunately I don't have the time to read that much into it at the moment, I have several exams in just a few weeks to prepare for and could really do without this to be honest.

However if I were to appeal is it better to do it through the post or email as they claim I can?

Also about point one, how would I word that would I suggest negligence on another parties behalf or just state the fact that she has no permits and none have ever been mentioned?

Half_way

Exams are stressful enough without worrying about some poxy parking company.
again you should check the lease agreement, thees usualy something about a "includes a parking space" or designated space+visotors space, but they seldom mention anything about permits, ( ive not heard of one yet that does)

first of all if the above is true, and youve re-checked everything you are taking it all too seriously, negligence/permits bah, why should you have to seek permission from a third party for something thats not realy required???

Treat it as the joke that it is, and play along with them.
1: forget about stressing over permits - if you dsont need one why bother??
2: collect the yellow envelopes, and wait for the letters to arrive in the post, this means the PPc will have to go to the DVLA for your data
3: tell the parking company that you dont agree with their conditions as you had permision to park there regardless of any permits, and as such they must now cancell the charge - if ( the PPC) doesnt agree to ths then they should send you a popla code

4; challenge the charge via popla if you want help with this then let us know, make sure to challenge each and every ticket this way, independantly a new popla code for each ticket/letter you recieve.

5; if you get bored with this, then tell both the managemetn company and the pakring company to stop putting tickets on your vehicle as its trespass, read this for more information
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**


Above all stop worrying, keep studdying and good luck with those exams.

Coupon-mad

Masrati wrote: »

Also about point one, how would I word that would I suggest negligence on another parties behalf or just state the fact that she has no permits and none have ever been mentioned?

It's similar to a point made by NitramA about her case, as already linked.

TBH you could copy & paste some of that thread as linked already, and make an appeal letter in ten minutes or so!

Guys_Dad

Regrettably as I have recently discovered, leases can allow the management company to implement just about anything they deem to be necessary.

Stroma

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Regrettably as I have recently discovered, leases can allow the management company to implement just about anything they deem to be necessary.

No they can't, and they can't force people to accept these third party companies. I have yet to see a single lease that says they must accept parking scammers

prowla

Not having a residents permit for parking in a visitors car park - that's a good 'un.

Years ago I worked at a company as a contractor and there were some parking spaces marked "Contractor", so my boss told me to park there. One day I came out and was clamped. I went in to the office and they tried to charge me £50 to remove it, so I told them (a) I was a contractor, (b) my boss had told me to park there, and (c) I would be charging for my time. When they did release it, I thanked them for earning me £100!