PPS parking at P&O Hull

ZiggyStardust1

May I apologise in advance if my new thread should have been added to an existing one, but there are so many......

Anyway, the background is this:

In March this year we booked a 2-night minicruise to Bruges via P&O Hull, arrived at the carpark in good time, in atrocious weather & duly tackled the ultra-complex PPS ticket machine, as we have done several times before. There's always a queue for these because they are a nightmare to use & the minimum ticket price, unless you're disabled is £7.00 per 24 hours or part thereof, as it's a Long Stay, right? So we duly inserted our card, paid the requisite £14.00, the machine said "Thanks, Payment Authorised" & spewed out a ticket, which I duly displayed, right way round, on my dashboard, locked the car & waltzed off with my wife to enjoy our minicruise.

Now, as it was blowing a force 10 gale & lashing with rain in the carpark, I didn't examine the printing on the ticket, just taking it on trust that it was correct, merely rushed off to embark on the ferry.

Imagine our displeasure at arriving back, well within the requisite 48 hours, to note a Parking Fine envelope from PPS stuck on our window! Imagine my displeasure at noting that the ticket we'd put there from the machine showed we'd paid £0.00 & were allowed only 2 hours!

Anyway, long story short, on arriving home & fuming with righteous anger, I immediately emailed PPS explaining that their machine was clearly broken, with attachments showing the ticket, my bank statement clearly showing the £14.00 debited to PPS on that date, er, other details blanked, of course, & a politely worded mail requesting that they acknowlege this & go away.

In response I received an angry email refuting my evidence, demanding the money & insinuating that my case would be passed to a Debt Recovery Agency if I didn't cough up. Now, there was also a link to POPLA , to whom I have sent even more evidence, not having seen this forum before today.

PPS have now responded by email yesterday with their caseload of somewhat ill-spelt & ungrammatical evidence, basically stating that their machine wasn't faulty & that I was driving elsewhere & charged up another £14.00 in a different carpark. I mean, the bloody car was in the carpark in UK, as we were foot passengers!

Today I received a posted written invoice from them demanding £127.50, which presumably includes the £27.50 on top of the £100.00 fine they have to pay to POPLA as I gather from this invaluable forum.

Now the purpose of this post is to highlight the trauma & stress this practice puts on people who are in the right. I'm not concerned about myself, as I can stand my corner & intend to do, but my wife (whose car it is, is very upset & worried, and it was only when I noted this forum & quoted the advice herein & the legal position that she was mildly comforted. I've been driving for nearly 40 years & have so far never even had a point on my license nor ever been stopped by the police nor ever had a parking fine. so this is just mindblowing. The tone of the emails & the printed fine invoice are extremely heavy & threatening & I can only imagine the effect this might have on someone less bloody-minded & Bolshie than me. But I only noted from this forum that apparently their threats are non-enforceable, & would welcome any advice from the experts whose posts managed to convince me of this. I have already emailed PPS noting that any further correspondence from them or their "agents" will incur a £350.00 per item invoice from me. Was this wise & should I follow it through?

I'm absolutely fuming at the temerity of these guys and have noted that the signatory to PPS's evidence to POPLA claiming we're criminals is one Barrie Douglass, General Manager of PPS, whose name appears more than a few times in this forum in a less than favourable light I've noticed. Alegedly.

fil_cad

Play the scammers at ther own game and enjoy it or just ignore the time wasters desparate to bank your dosh :money:

Stroma

So I gather you appealed to the parking company and they turned you down, and you appealed to popla (without help on that) and they turned you down yes ?

As popla decisions are not binding upon you just ignore the parking company unless they issue a small claim, they would be insane to do so as you have proof that you paid, and you supplied a copy to them to mitigate their losses, which they don't have any as they don't own the car park.

So next step is ignore

Coupon-mad

As I read it, the POPLA appeal is still open, not decided yet?

If so then send them another submission by post, with the same verification code on it and clearly marked 'additional evidence for POPLA appeal code xxxxxxx which was submitted by email on xx/xx/13'

Your first point should be that you have just received (whilst a POPLA appeal is already in and this fact is known by the PPC) a posted written invoice from them demanding £127.50, which presumably includes the £27 for POPLA and a 50p stamp!

Enclose a copy of it and state that the PPC have acted outside of the BPA Code of Practice and in fact this breaches the terms of the independent appeals service (which became POPLA) that the Protection of Freedoms Act required to be in place. A PPC cannot pass to the motorist, the cost of the independent appeal, not at any point in the process and whatever the outcome.

And can you send a copy of your email booking or photocopy of the tickets showing you were indeed a foot passenger at that time on that day on a service leaving from that very car park, not elsewhere in the UK, as the PPC has desperately suggested in their 'clutching at straws' and grammatically shocking submission?

Also if you fancy adding in more to your evidence, seeing as you'd be posting this new letter to POPLA anyway, I have just suggested some POPLA appeal ideas to a poster:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4557939

HTH. Hope you don't mean that POPLA have already declined your appeal?

hoohoo

I too assume you have an active POPLA appeal...but it's not clear from your post. If not, start one before the clock runs out.

Add the following requirements to your appeal as per Coupon Mad's instructions.

1. Requirement to show service history of machine in question
2. Requirement to show they have investigated the machine for errors following your complaint, plus the full audit trail for the actual ticket issued (presumably it has a serial number)
3. Requirement to show they have investigated their bank accounts to trace your payment
4. Requirement to detail their internal procedures to follow in such cases


In my opinion their attempt to invoice you during the POPLA process will be the killer though. This is simply not allowed, and may even result in broader penalties. Please report them to the BPA as well.

This shows why the old system of PPC appeals was never going to work. To deny an appeal when you have a bank statement showing the payment made is ludicrous.

ZiggyStardust1

I'm most obliged for your illuminating responses to my post re. PPS, kind people, & I'll be following up your suggestions with considerable gusto. Thanks very much for the effort you've clearly put into helping me....it really is helpful & reassuring.

Sorry, Stroma, I should have made it clear that my appeal to POPLA is still outstanding since early March. I emailed it to POPLA on XXXX, so I was timely in that respect. Interesting to note your comment re. invoicing before the outcome of a POPLA appeal is known, Coupon-mad, as PPS emailed me with a bunch of attachments & a copy of their submission to POPLA against me on XXXX.

The same day I received their invoice for £127.50, which represents, although this is not broken down, £100.00 for not paying the £50.00 fine in 14 days plus presumably £27.50 to cover their POPLA costs.

The invoice date is XXXX, the date franking on the envelope is from XXXX, so clearly they did jump the gun. Their letter also states that I am the Registered Keeper of the car. I'm not: it's my wife's car, registered in her name, which I also informed them of in my emails, & gave them permission to check this with the DVLA if they wanted.

I have 6 days now in which to pay this sum, their invoice sternly threatens, or "further action" will be taken. Thank God I checked them out in this forum & that I'm not a frail & elderly person or someone semi-literate, who would be frightened & intimidated by their brusque & superficially threatening missives.

I'll follow your advice, people, & send addirional info to POPLA & report PPS to the BPA, if you could confirm that pre-invoicing a "fine" during a POPLA appeal is an infringement of what I assume is a 'voluntary' code of conduct within this cozy yet murky 'industry'?

Edit: I've edited out the dates from this missive, following advice, as I note that this board is trolled & lurked by these cowboys, & if they don't manage to decipher the long words I may have used, they sometimes can interpret dates & painstakingly manage to write them down on a piece of paper, presumably with their finger tracing the words on the screen & their tongue protruding.

Stroma

Well make sure you go over to https://www.pepipoo.com for additional advice on this, they can help you add more points to popla. Also as they are in breach of the bpa CoP please read what they should be doing add it to the popla appeal. Sending out an invoice clearly showing that they are charging for popla is a major breach and they should fail on this

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2012_v2_March2013.pdf

Also send a copy of this letter to the dvla at mike.butler@dvla.gsi.gov.uk for this breach when you get time, they are in a load of trouble for breaking the code of practice.

hoohoo

BPA code of practice 37.3 states

"If you receive a challenge or appeal about the issue of
a parking ticket, you must stop work on processing the
ticket immediately. You must not increase the charge until
you have replied to the challenge..."

It could be argued that this only applies to their own process and not POPLA. However, it could also be argued the other way.

It's definitely sharp practice and worth a complaint if only to get the BPA's official stance and a possible clarification.

ZiggyStardust1

Thanks again for the additional advice people. Appreciated.

Hopefully this thread will be seen by lots of other people & their worries allayed & your advice followed. I'm not going to let this one go & I'll take them to the European Court of Human Rights if need be, believe me.

Edit: I've checked your link to britishparking.co.uk, Stroma, & nearly spilt my drink as I read on their homepage that they consider this bizarre scam to be a "profession".

Stroma

hoohoo wrote: »

BPA code of practice 37.3 states

"If you receive a challenge or appeal about the issue of
a parking ticket, you must stop work on processing the
ticket immediately. You must not increase the charge until
you have replied to the challenge..."

It could be argued that this only applies to their own process and not POPLA. However, it could also be argued the other way.

It's definitely sharp practice and worth a complaint if only to get the BPA's official stance and a possible clarification.

Yes it says that, but it makes no sense to continue chasing someone when it's in the process of being appealed. I know parking companies have no sense, but this is a breach and it goes against what has been outlined not just in this one section but the whole code of practice.

Stroma

ZiggyStardust1 wrote: »

Edit: I've checked your link to britishparking.co.uk, Stroma, & nearly spilt my drink as I read on their homepage that they consider this bizarre scam to be a "profession".

yes they think its an industry as well, the enlightened know its just a money making scam by companies who regularly break various laws for their nefarious gain.

The bpa who are run by the directors of parking companies and are fully funded by them, are simply a rubber stamping body who are in the scam together with the dvla who allows this to continue almost unchecked.

Basically it's one big rip off of the British motorists which various governments turn a blind eye against .