Time for state owned Nuclear Power

grizzly1911

Sweey_as_a_nut wrote: »

apart from the cost of the raw product there is that lovely little incentive for us to switch, a bottle of wine, a crate of wine, £30 cash back and they will think of more as time goes on. I wonder who'll bear the cost of that little lot?

The additional cost of running six head offices, marketing departments, administration and billing staff, six sets of executives, city listings and auditing costs. Six sets of shareholder return to be provided.

I received £70 cash back last time I swapped. Even at £30 the cost of each switch must be close to £100, by the time account opening and closing have taken place and commission to the switching sites every 12/18 months.

We the consumer pay for those needless overheads in our bills.

But eh ho it is much more efficient for us consumers.

It is isn't it?

smartn

I worked in the industry when it was state controlled and would have to agree it wasn't one of the most efficient but I have had several private sector jobs since and plenty of these organisations appear to have been no better. It's certainly not a simple case of private sector good and public sector bad.

I still feel that there is scope to run state owned companies effectively with strong management and this is one industry where I think it may work.

Sweey_as_a_nut

Here is something you lot on this site who purrs at the very words Margaret Thatcher will be proud of. She as only been in hell about a week, and she have already shut 3 furnaces down.

sheffield_lad

Wild_Rover wrote: »

I'm sure that those in fuel poverty will be relieved that the present energy generation and distribution arrangements are working out so well for them.

WR

No more or less expensive than the rest of Europe really. In fact only 3-4 countries have cheaper energy.

Its an easy target for the press the big 6 holding us to ransom and screaming for more competition but most industries have 4-6 main players just like energy. Think supermarkets, mobile providers, tv channels etc.

The issue we have to get our heads around is the era of cheap energy has gone. We live in a world with global demand, 50% of Indian homes have no electricity but for how long for?

Nuclear is a good option but never in the hands of the public sector. The costs to build and run (without mentioning union demands), make it a game for private industry alone.

CLAPTON

howee wrote: »

Nuclear is a good option but never in the hands of the public sector. The costs to build and run (without mentioning union demands), make it a game for private industry alone.

private sector will only build a nuclear power plant with a guaranteed income stream (subsidy) for 30 years ... PFI hasn't proved a blessing to date and no reason to expect this deal to be any better

CLAPTON

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Competition that leads to corners being cut to maintain that competitive edge or selling needless products at high prices to gullible consumers.

Often monopolies have to provide consistent, safe, resilient, reliable, continuously available services that are available on demand. Providing that means increased overhead.

you really must regret the demise of the soviet union and old style Chinese communism

sheffield_lad

CLAPTON wrote: »

private sector will only build a nuclear power plant with a guaranteed income stream (subsidy) for 30 years ... PFI hasn't proved a blessing to date and no reason to expect this deal to be any better

I don't think its unreasonable of them to want a commitment from this and future gov's that they won't ditch nuclear for another fuel further down the road.

Japan & Germany are perfect examples of major switches away from nuclear without any consultation. These things are not cheap to build or run.

grizzly1911

CLAPTON wrote: »

you really must regret the demise of the soviet union and old style Chinese communism

What are you on about?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

howee wrote: »

The issue we have to get our heads around is the era of cheap energy has gone.

Nonsense.

The cost of natural Gas has fallen by 70% in the US over the last decade. They now have enough from fracking to be energy independent (and in fact a net exporter) for at least the next century.

As for the UK....

The British Geological Survey’s study official assessment of UK shale gas reserves is due very soon, perhaps before the end of March.

Already the buzz is that previous figures will be “increased dramatically” with The Times reporting a probable stratospheric rise in assessment, “200 times greater than previously believed”.

That would pitch UK shale gas reserves at a world class 1,300 to 1,700 trillion cubic feet.

Or “enough shale gas to heat every home in Britain for 1,500 years.” More than that, it could well have the power to impact gas prices in Europe too.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3032/uk_steals_vital_lead_on_europe_in_shale_gas_stakes

If we can prevent the politicians and vested interests from making the same mistakes they've done with electric companies and banks, i.e., allowing a small cartel to reduce competition and rig prices, then we're in with a real chance of dirt cheap energy for centuries.

What is needed is low regulation, low entry costs, and high levels of competition, to attract the maximum number of producers to drive down prices.

There is certainly a place for nuclear as well, a good energy mix is vital for energy security, but not at any price....

chewmylegoff

I'm not opposed to the idea of state run power stations and personally think it may have been a mistake not to retain at least 51% government ownership of power generation and distribution (as well as water).

However, a nuclear power plant costs £15bn to build. Once you've built enough to secure the long term energy requirements of this country what then? The grid and the retail industry would still be in private hands. Do we renationalise all that by buying all the shares at market price? Or do we just sell the electricty in the wholesale market and watch the retail providers make bigger profits?

Just building some power plants won't help consumers much. I can't see how we could afford to pay to renationalise the entire industry. Without doing that I can't really see what would be achieved.