More advice please

blossom1948

I have received a letter from the PPC in response to my "letter before court action" sent to them and the landowners and I would appreciate advice on what to do next.

This was my thread requesting help on putting together a LBA - have had to edit out the link as I'm a "newbie" and not allowed to post them!

The letter received is as follows:
Dear "my christian name"
Thank you for your letter concerning a possible court claim.
I have fully investigated this matter and would make the following observations:-
1. You are correct to say the "blue badge scheme" does not apply on private land, however, the blue badge is used as a permit to indicate the driver or their passengers have motability access issues and are therefore entitled to use a disabled bay.

2. Landowners and their agents have a legal duty to provide disabled spaces for those with long term motability issues.

3. By not displaying a blue badge as a permit you contractually agreed to pay a parking charge of £100 reduced to £60 for payment within 14 days.

4. You made a conscious decision to pay £60 when this was not necessary or requested whilst the charge was in appeal and on hold.

5. Because you had paid £60 the charge could not be appealed at POPLA - this is in line with the independent appeals regulations.

We therefore stand by our actions in issuing the ticket, not allowing your appeal and in not giving you a POPLA verification code. However we do recognise this has caused you some distress and confusion and therefore prepared to cancel the charge and refund your cheque. This is a gesture of goodwill and is offered on the understand that this will close the matter.

I should be grateful if you could sign the enclosed form and return.
Yours sincerely, signed by the Manager of the PPC

The form attached says "I XXXX accept the refund of £60 for paid parking charge xxxx which will be sent by cheque once I return this form signed. This refund will be in full and final settlement of the matter. Name Address Signature & date.

I have looked again at the parking notice charge, Part 1 gives the Issue Details, Part 2 Payments Part 3 Late payments etc., etc., and Part 10 Representation says "if you wish to appeal against this parking notice charge, please state your case within 7 days from the date of issue. If your appeal is successful any money paid will be refunded in full. Please allow 28 days for a reply.

Does this contradict para. 4 of the PPC's letter to me?

Should I just accept this and get my original amount back or should I persevere??

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

My Letter before court action said I would accept a smaller out of court settlement in the sum of £250 providing I received a written apology and payment of the said amount within 14 days from the date of receipt of my letter - basically giving them until 22 April to respond and if I didn't receive a positive response by the 30th then I would initiate court action with no further reference to either the PPC or the Landlowners.

nigelbb

blossom1948 wrote: »

5. Because you had paid £60 the charge could not be appealed at POPLA - this is in line with the independent appeals regulations.

This is a lie.

peter_the_piper

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4529123

blossom1948

Thank you Peter.

and Nigel, can you or someone point me in the right direction as to this being a "lie".

nigelbb

POPLA will consider appeals even when you have paid the charge.

Here is what it says on the POPLA site that a PPCS must do when you make representations i.e. appeal or challenge:-

On receipt of your representations, the operator must:

Consider any representations received within the time allowed for representations;
Acknowledge or reply to the representations within 14 days of receiving it;
Decide whether to accept or reject the representations;
Within 35 days of receiving the representations, accept or reject it and inform the maker.
If they have accepted the representations or failed to respond within 35 days, cancel the notice to keeper (where the parking charge notice was served at the scene) or the parking charge notice (where this was served by post) and refund any sums paid.

Note the bit at the end where it says "refund any sums paid". So even if you have paid you can still appeal & if they accept your appeal or fail to respond within 35 days they must refund. Just because you pay doesn't prevent you appealing to the PPC & if they turn down your appeal they must provide a POPLA code.

You need to contact POPLA & the BPA & the DVLA to tell them that you have appealed but been refused access to the independent appeals process i.e. POPLA.

It would have been easier for us to follow this case if you had added this to your original thread but I know that CouponMad will be along to support you on the LBA & Equality Act angle.

fisherjim

nigelbb wrote: »

POPLA will consider appeals even when you have paid the charge.

Here is what it says on the POPLA site that a PPCS must do when you make representations i.e. appeal or challenge:-




Note the bit at the end where it says "refund any sums paid". So even if you have paid you can still appeal & if they accept your appeal or fail to respond within 35 days they must refund. Just because you pay doesn't prevent you appealing to the PPC & if they turn down your appeal they must provide a POPLA code.

You need to contact POPLA & the BPA & the DVLA to tell them that you have appealed but been refused access to the independent appeals process i.e. POPLA.

It would have been easier for us to follow this case if you had added this to your original thread but I know that CouponMad will be along to support you on the LBA & Equality Act angle.

I am a little confused here, the PPC has cancelled the charge, and offered to refund the money he paid, upon the return of a no further action form being signed (I think).
Seems the OP ruffled someone's feathers, fair play!
But surely the OP would have no grounds to appeal if accepting this 'goodwill' gesture as the charges would all be cancelled.

I think the advice he requested is; should they reject the goodwill offer and pursue the action against the PPC and landowner as stated in his Letter before Court Action?
Though I am probably talking rubbish, it's been a long day!

blossom1948

My original original thread was dated 22/03/2013 (foolishly paid! ...) where I had already appealed their decision and then requested a POPLA reference which never materialised hence the forwardstance of a small claim.

Being a newbie I am not allowed to link to the previous threads.

I just need some really good advice as to whether to accept their sign this and return to get my £60 back or should I continue with my small claim for amongst other things my time and the stress this has caused me.

Every time I go to this shopping centre, which is very often, I become quite stressed, even though now I understand that I shouldn't have to, that I have to get my BB out to where it can be seen!!

I truly would appreciate any advice as to how to answer this letter received.

Many thanks,

blossom1948

fisherjim wrote: »

I am a little confused here, the PPC has cancelled the charge, and offered to refund the money he paid, upon the return of a no further action form being signed (I think).
Seems the OP ruffled someone's feathers, fair play!
But surely the OP would have no grounds to appeal if accepting this 'goodwill' gesture as the charges would all be cancelled.

I think the advice he requested is; should they reject the goodwill offer and pursue the action against the PPC and landowner as stated in his Letter before Court Action?
Though I am probably talking rubbish, it's been a long day!

Yes, that's it in a nutshell, thank you.

Should I reject the so-called "goodwill" offer and accept the return of my £60? or pursue the action against the PPC (and Landowner as they were included in the Letter before Court action) for my time (see previous thread) and costs??

Many thanks,

Coupon-mad

blossom1948 wrote: »

Yes, that's it in a nutshell, thank you.

Should I reject the so-called "goodwill" offer and accept the return of my £60? or pursue the action against the PPC (and Landowner as they were included in the Letter before Court action) for my time (see previous thread) and costs??

Many thanks,

It's a difficult one isn't it because of the hassle if you have to attend a Court hearing. They have clearly worded that attached letter to stop you being able to claim more later as it asks you to sign and accept £60 as 'full and final settlement'.

But a PPC case I helped a disabled person with recently, they pressed further with their pre-Court warnings and included the landowner and managing agent in 2 or 3 more very strong emails with a final ultimatum issued before Court.

They were paid compensation of a few hundred...out of Court (and I won't name the poster here). But they were paid by the landowner or agent (it was not the PPC who paid out, it was a very jumpy landowner I think).

So it's a question of whether:

1. you are happy to just get your money back from 'ScammersRUs' so they get no profit from this, and draw a line under it, or

2. whether you want to refuse this 'refund' which didn't even apologise and quoted the law wrongly in point no. 2 of their letter because the Equality Act covers EVERY 'protected characteristic' and not just people with what they called 'motability issues' who happen to be showing a Blue Badge the right way up on a dashboard.

If you decide you prefer to make a fight of it because of the principle, like the other person I mentioned, then there are no guarantees of course and you may have to take it to a small claim (which you 'should' win but judges make odd decisions sometimes...). But if that's your stance then I can help you with emails to put pressure on the landowner and/or retail managing agent, who I assume also got a copy of your LBA? They are the ones who will most likely pay compensation if you decide to turn the screw.

It's a win-win situation for you so think it over, no rush, you have an offer on the table.

blossom1948

Thank you Coupon - am turning the poot off now for the evening.

My initial thought is carry-on regardless! but will need most definitely some further help word-wise.

Thank you again.

blossom1948

Coupon-mad wrote: »

So it's a question of whether:

1. you are happy to just get your money back from 'ScammersRUs' so they get no profit from this, and draw a line under it, or

2. whether you want to refuse this 'refund' which didn't even apologise and quoted the law wrongly in point no. 2 of their letter because the Equality Act covers EVERY 'protected characteristic' and not just people with what they called 'motability issues' who happen to be showing a Blue Badge the right way up on a dashboard.

If you decide you prefer to make a fight of it because of the principle, like the other person I mentioned, then there are no guarantees of course and you may have to take it to a small claim (which you 'should' win but judges make odd decisions sometimes...). But if that's your stance then I can help you with emails to put pressure on the landowner and/or retail managing agent, who I assume also got a copy of your LBA? They are the ones who will most likely pay compensation if you decide to turn the screw.

It's a win-win situation for you so think it over, no rush, you have an offer on the table.

The Landowner was sent a LBA at the same time and they actually responded and I quote "Thank you for your letter of xxApril. I note its contents and have passed it to XXXXX for them to respond".

So yes, I would like to put together a letter to the Landowner enclosing a copy of the PPC's response and point out to them (the Landowner) that the company they have contracted to look after their car park does not understand the law regarding the Equalities Act specific to a disabled person and secondly they do not even understand the POPLA appeals regulations either as they should have given me a POPLA reference when it was requested after they denied my appeal.

If I refer them to the penultimate paragraph of my LBA which was originally sent to them re accepting a smaller out of court settlement, do you think that would suffice??