ESA-it it best to get citizens advice or welfare person to fill in ESA50 form?

bigboybrother

I filled in all of my claim forms, ESA, DLA & IIDB with no help from anybody. I simply said it as it was. I certainly wasn't looking to answer the questions or give statements with the various bits of legislation and regulations in mind. I took the view that 'this is me, these are my problems, this is what I can and can't do' and if the DM couldn't understand the simple truth, then they shouldn't be in the job.

As for my last ESA review, I wasn't very happy about having to fill another ESA50 after the last one 3 years ago when it is clear to all that my disabilities/illness will never improve. I sent no evidence with it other that a copy of my 5 page repeat prescription. I didn't even give the name of my GP or any other of the many consultants that I see. They contacted my GP (took the info off the 2009 ESA50) who completed a report for them that saw me continue in the Support Group until my 65th birthday in June 2014.
Quite honestly I didn't bloody care what they came up with when I posted the ESA50 off! I've had a bellyfull of officialdom questioning my illnesses and disabilities over the past 4 years!

Parva

I downloaded the form and filled it in on my computer bit by bit, taking the time to accurately describe how I was affected day to day. Once completed I printed it out and sent it off. The result was that I was placed straight in to the support group. Don't be daunted by the form, understand the descriptors and accurately explain how you fail them but take your time filling it in. The PC route was best for me as I often forget how simple things I can no longer perform were missed and I could add these next day or whenever when I realised before I returned the form.

Edit: Welcome back Andy.

speedfreek1000

redskyatnight wrote: »

I am confused at the relevance of this. Surely someone simply needs to write about their condition and how it affects them. What you're saying seems to be suggesting people need help or assistance filling it in to ensure they say the 'right thing', on the form, to ensure they stay on the benefit. When surely the 'right thing' should be the truth, about how their condition affects them. Why do they need someone to 'help them fill it in correctly?'

Surely, it's as simple as filling in the form honestly. I doubt that people 'underestimate their difficulties.' Especially if they have been on DLA or IB before. It sounds a bit like some want to find someone to help them say the right thing to enable them to stay on the benefit. If this is not the case; that people are not just trying to find someone help them say the right thing, why can people not just fill it in themselves?

There's a few things

1, DWP language; a Welfare Rights worker can translate what the person says into not only the complex frame work of the benefits legislation they are applying for, but also put that into a way a DM/Tribunal panel member can readily understand.

2, A Welf will also challenge the person in front of them to make sure what they are saying is correct and if the person has missed something vital (see point 4). They have a very good idea due to contact with others, how certain conditions may effect somebody.

3, to survive more often then not a disabled/ill person has to have quite a 'rosy disposition' or has grown so used to mitigating issues that whilst obvious to another to themselves in their minds it's not a problem. Often a pattern of avoidance & denial can form as a means of keeping this survival front up.

DLA forms were a bit of a killer for this as to stay positive you focus on what you can do, where as they asked specifically what you can't!

4, It is not worth a Welfs reputation to take cases were somebody is obviously lying or stands no chance of success! It would be noticed pretty quickly that they were unreliable. This would lead to suspicion over any case they took on and (pre-cuts) put in jeopardy their further funding for legal aid! There was a reason that some Welf places were achieving 90% + success rates and biting off your own nose to spite your face wasn't one of them.

Thanks to a good Welf I've gone through 1 DLA appeal and 2 ESA appeals and won them all. Although for both ESA appeals (both won on 'the same material facts as the DWP had at the time of the decision') I've had to spend 9 month min on appeal I've never actually attended a tribunal. A phone call 4 hours before I due to attend ended the last one!

My favorite Welf story is of our 1st meeting;

Him: It says here that you can not go to new places or meet new people!

Me: Yes!

Him: Well where are we and who am I?

I for one am now really looking forward to the years stress ESA causes. Now even with support it knocked me out of treatment for the duration but at least I know it's pointless me applying for PIP. So that's one less thing to worry about :rotfl:

seven-day-weekend

My son, my husband and myself helped our son's girlfriend to fill in her DLA form, as her condition means she cannot always understand the questions or express herself clearly. We asked her the questions in bite-size chunks, she told us the answers and we worded her answer in a more concise manner.

However, for someone without these difficulties, or without learning disabilities, the forms are straightforward enough and I don't think you should need help from anyone else.

Dunroamin

benefitbaby wrote: »

Whilst I am pleased everything went well for your sister these benefit boards show that for many this is not the case.

I am not suggesting that benefit advisers coach people to 'say the right thing' (there is no such thing) they do understand the law about the qualifying criteria and reg29/35.

The problem is twofold:
1. The form does not actually ask questions that match the descriptors so sometimes people miss out key details about their condition because they fail to realise the importance and in respect of regulations 29 and 35 there are no questions at all on the form about this.
2. When you live with a disability or long-term health condition things that are difficult, like picking up a pound coin may be managed by sliding it along the table and so you may tick 'no problem' on the form however this would actually qualify you for points if you could not pick it up using your fingers.

Advisers are skilled at asking the right questions as they relate to entitlement, this is markedly different than knowing the right answers.

And yet at least two long term posters on here report leaving voluntary jobs which involved form filling for people because they were expected to complete applications in a way that was specificaly about knowing the right answers as their organisations' funding relied on gaining as high a "pass rate" as possible.

speedfreek1000

Dunroamin wrote: »

And yet at least two long term posters on here report leaving voluntary jobs which involved form filling for people because they were expected to complete applications in a way that was specificaly about knowing the right answers as their organisations' funding relied on gaining as high a "pass rate" as possible.

So they left due to a conflict of their integrity and own professional standards!

The target and tick box culture is insidious and driven by how Government funds organisations to facilitate cuts in services.

See my answers above. These individuals would have known that people assisted like that would have been ripped to shreds by a Tribunal panel.

It seams to me you are trying to make a point by proving the exact opposite with no actual real life experience of either.

Dunroamin

speedfreek1000 wrote: »

So they left due to a conflict of their integrity and own professional standards!

The target and tick box culture is insidious and driven by how Government funds organisations to facilitate cuts in services.

See my answers above. These individuals would have known that people assisted like that would have been ripped to shreds by a Tribunal panel.

It seams to me you are trying to make a point by proving the exact opposite with no actual real life experience of either.

One presumes (unless someone's known as a troll) that people bring their own honest experience to the forum to inform the opinions of others. Both posters I mention are regulars here and are both themselves disabled so I doubt that they have an axe to grind on the issue.

As for being "ripped to shreds by a Tribunal panel", surely the point of going to an organisation with skilled staff is to avoid an application getting anywhere near a Tribunal?

As for real life experience, I think that you're making a pretty large assumption about me, based on typical MSE stereotyping.

skintmacflint

It won't do any harm to meet up with the advisor and have the level of detail you need to give on the form and the ESA descriptors explained, if you're worried or not confident about form filling.

Then you can choose to fill it out yourself or ask them to do it for you. I helped a relative fill in one and there was no problem , they were transferred into the Support Group.

Also think Parvas suggestion of filling it in online is a good suggestion, as you can go back and correct it, if you've missed something and take your time over it.

KxMx

It's worth saying I took a notepad along with me to my appointment to note things down and then went away and filled in the form myself.

I just needed guidance on how I was to translate three main problems, several minor ones- all with no diagnosis- into the questions there were asking. Health problems do not always fit neatly into tick boxes. Anyone claiming knowledge of the ESA process should well know that.

I resent people (who helped relatives so second hand not first hand knowledge) telling me I should have been able to manage on my own. Again if they are so experienced with ESA/ disability as claimed they should realise a "one size fits all" approach couldn't be more wrong.

I agree with speedfreak's point 3, it was very depressing having to go through everything and admit how bad things are. To get by day to day I have to avoid the reality of my situation and spend most of the time in denial. I am aware of how unhealthy that is but that is the only way for me to deal with this mess I find myself in. Also many things which are normal to me are not normal to anyone else and speaking to an advisor helped me to see this and to translate it into my answers where relevant.

wouldbeqaulitymoneysaver

As an exercise just to get you familiar with the form you could in fact download it and put down a few answers and save it after every section.
But my money is on welfare rights advisors with their legal knowledge etc plus support to help you through what is a progressively difficult form making benefits harder and harder to claim.
another thing ALWAYS PHOTOCOPY YOUR FORMS ALWAYS KEEP ALL DOCUMENTS. My sister keeps all of mine so we are more prepared when the dreaded reevaluation thing comes around again.