SIPP investment in Property

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  • You’re quite right. What was really shocking was being approached by a guy I used to work with and clearly he was seeking to get in contact with others I worked with by The remind me of so and so’s surname. How can anyone that once was a colleague try and con you out of your hard earned money. Apparently my pension pot is worth more out than in, his words, you get a 2.5% increase pa, I’ll make you 10% your 100K will become 160k so from Reading the first post in 2013 when they offered 12% they must have revised their modle as 12pc probably sounded way too good to be true. He also lied about people I know already putting their money into this scheme. Thinking by throwing names around I would be impressed. I told him if I’d have been interested I would have invested two if three years ago when he first told me about it. I didn’t even bother looking it up that time this time I google the name and the first thing back was Dolphin Trust Scandal - I only posted as I saw someone else has recently been approach. He’s my get rich scheme use your £100K to buy your own home and when you are ready to retire completely that Home will be yours and yours alone
  • I am an investor not connected to Dolphin in any way , nor am I an introducer..

    There seems to be some ignorance over what Dolphin is about on here, to say the least.

    I am 3 years into mu investment and every penny of interest has been paid on the nail.If this is a scam its a very well run one.

    Dont forget that all companies, including banks, need revolving lines of credit in order to trade.... its the way of the world.Each investor has his funds secured by property or its in a german lawyers escrow account....it is never held by the company directly.It is true that a type of JV investment vehicle is used for each project and its inevitable that they are in the red until the property is developed.This is because all the development is sold off plan before work starts.Therefore there is no longer an asset at that point....the funds plus interest are returned to the lawyer.there are no banks involved at the outset as the banks are used to prepackage mortgages for the end buyers.....who benefit from generous tax breaks , such that after 15years their properties are virtually purchased by the tax relief.The mortgages funds are released at various stages of development which is carried out by a german construction company......there is no risk to the investor by then as his funds will be out of the project.

    Ill post again in July when the next interest payment is due, and every 6 months after that till January 2020 when the funds should be returned.
  • LungboyLungboy Forumite
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    It never fails to amaze me how people pop up in these threads. Good luck with your investment with German property cooling down and loads still to come onto the market.
  • edited 2 April 2018 at 11:20AM
    MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    edited 2 April 2018 at 11:20AM
    I am 3 years into mu investment and every penny of interest has been paid on the nail.If this is a scam its a very well run one.

    No, if this is a scam (your word, not mine) it's merely an averagely well run one. Madoff's scam lasted over a decade. MMM Global is still going 7 years after launch, albeit after repeated collapses and relaunches. Scams last until new investment dries up. There is no time limit on that.

    Note that I have no reason to believe Dolphin is a scam - I'm only addressing your implication that it can't be a scam because scams have to collapse within three years.
    Dont forget that all companies, including banks, need revolving lines of credit in order to trade.... its the way of the world.
    The vast majority of companies obtain their credit lines from regulated institutions in such a way that no retail investor is exposed to the risk of total and permanent loss. What makes Dolphin different that it needs to source funds directly from retail investors?
    Each investor has his funds secured by property
    So did investors in Secured Energy Bonds and Providence Bonds. Google them.
    .....there is no risk to the investor by then as his funds will be out of the project.
    You're using the word "no risk" in reference to this investment, an ultra-high-risk unregulated bond with a risk of total loss, and you claim others are ignorant about how it works?
    Ill post again in July when the next interest payment is due, and every 6 months after that till January 2020 when the funds should be returned.
    Why? What information will that add? Interest payments being made on time means nothing. Let's assume your particular bond pays 12% - that means so far you have given them say £100,000 and they've given you £36,000 back.

    What is the value of the bond on the open market? How much would you get for your investment if you decided to redeem it today? Only after we add this figure to the money in your pocket can we assess how well the investment has performed to date.

    Why are you so keen for others to invest new funds into this scheme?
  • edited 4 April 2018 at 6:33PM
    Knight_CrofterKnight_Crofter Forumite
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    edited 4 April 2018 at 6:33PM
    I have no reason to persuade or dissuade anyone from investing.Just pointing out that it appears genuine.There is risk in all things.The loan notes are not strictly tradeable as such so i guess it can't be sold or encashed early unless they offer that to me.Perhaps, interestingly they have offered conversion of the loan note into shares in a plc listed on the London Stock market so I suppose it could be converted and the shares sold.... but I have no idea what the proceeds might be.The company has close to 200 million shares issued and closing price was 13.5p tonight.
    I take the point that until the end of the 5 year period I wont know if its a " scam" or not.... even then I might just be a lucky one who gets repaid.
    I won't bother updating till December 2019 then you can make your own judgement.
  • MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    interestingly they have offered conversion of the loan note into shares in a plc listed on the London Stock market so I suppose it could be converted and the shares sold.... but I have no idea what the proceeds might be.The company has close to 200 million shares issued and closing price was 13.5p tonight.

    That is extremely interesting. Which plc? Presumably not Dolphin Capital Investors as their shares are only 7p and haven't traded anywhere near 13.5p since early 2016.

    If you converted your whole loan into shares and sold them on the open market at tonight's price, what would your gain be?
  • Vordere plc ( apparently means Forward in german.

    At last nights price there would be a 20% loss on sale.The shares have been high enough to generate a 10% profit in the last few weeks.
    Its a bit academic at the moment as the assets of that company are 4 development projects .... but no information has been given as yet to the projected revenues or costs associated with them.
  • MalthusianMalthusian Forumite
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    So if you converted and sold on the open market today you'd have 80% of your initial capital plus whatever interest payments you've had to date? My first reaction was to tell you to bite their arm off. But that would be irresponsible as it's very possible you wouldn't actually be able to do that.

    Notably, according to the LSE only £13,000 worth of Vordere plc changed hands throughout the whole of yesterday, all "off-book". That suggests it would be quite difficult to dispose of all your shares if you did this.
  • Yes you're right.... I suspect it would be very difficult to offload a large quantity of shares in one go.....unless you had a buyer for them.

    Watch this space.
  • Not that anyone gives one, but Im going to Berlin next month at their expense in one of the regular inspection trips.Maybe I'll glean something useful.
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