SIPP investment in Property

lozzy1965

Annisele wrote: »

I've not looked in to the individual investment, so feel free to ignore the rest of this post.

I maintain that it *sounds* like UCIS territory - meaning the sort of thing that UCIS invest in. But if it's a corporate bond, then your adviser is right to say it isn't a UCIS.

My general concern would be why the issuer thinks they need to offer a return of 12% to get investors. Bond issuers prefer to pay as little as possible, because they want their borrowing to be cheap. If they have to offer 12% to get anybody to bite, that's because they think nobody will invest at 11%, 10% etc. If you don't understand why other people aren't interested at 11%, you shouldn't touch it.

There are cases where investing a bond like this can be a very good idea (but only for a small proportion of your portfolio). If you have enough information to assess the risks properly - particularly if you have information the rest of the market doesn't have - you might think 12% is a good return relative to the risk. Other people might disagree (possibly because they haven't been to Germany /investigated the thing properly / whatever).

Another concern would be around the guarantees. If the guarantee is provided by TinPotTinyCompany Limited, based in the British Virgin Islands, I'll trust it a lot less than if it's provided by Barclays Bank.

Thanks. That is good advice with no sarcasm or belittling of my questions. I see why you have a high 'Thanks' to 'posts' ratio. I was aware of the guarantee issue.

lozzy1965

atush wrote: »

I read your posts, where you said you don't want to invest in anything Greater risk than shares int he stock market- this is higher risk as it is unregulated. Will it make money like Jamesd's did? Probably not.

Why? Because you were cold called. No one I know of has EVER made money off a cold call, but plenty have lost money.

So, stop the childish name calling, and read the posts to YOU properly. If you want something high risk, go out and seek it. I have no problem with high risk. But dont look at things that cold callers are trying to sell you.

I do not rate your posts. You may offer good advice, but you do it in a condescending way. You have made me feel like you are taking the p*ss out of me. I do not rate cold callers, but I do love to waste their time, and I will look at what they offer. Maybe that was my mistake here, because I cannot find any bad press about what they offered. Though I DO NOT sign up to what they offer until I have thoroughly investigated it. No hard feelings. maybe we can both learn from this?

lozzy1965

mania112 wrote: »

Ok, so you're not doing it.




Who called you? You accept unsolicited calls?

I also do not rate you! Same as atush. See atush comments. Especially the bit about us BOTH learning from this?

Perelandra

lozzy1965 wrote: »

OK I get your point, but a little bit sarcastic! Greece is all over the news. We ALL know what a state the Greek government is in. I cannot find a single bit of bad press on the internet on Dolphin Capital. And NO! I am NOT saying these are a good investment! I am simply asking questions.

Found a quick one:

Dolphin Capital operate the German property investment, but also a form of landbanking in Singapore.

Here's their Singapore website, which contains links back to the UK and German sites:

http://www.dc-asia.com.sg/

Dolphin Capital Asia is also listed on the MAS website on their investor alert list:

http://www.mas.gov.sg/ial.aspx?sc_p=d

More information on it here:

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-property/singapore-property-news/2-property-firms-land-on-mas-alert-list/a/121953

The impression I get is that the company cuts corners at best, and is a scam at worst.

Personally, I'd prefer the Greek Bonds.

jamesd

lozzy1965 wrote: »

I cannot find a single bit of bad press on the internet on Dolphin Capital.

What good press have you found from places other than those who are promoting it and being paid as a result?

mania112

lozzy1965 wrote: »

I also do not rate you! Same as atush. See atush comments. Especially the bit about us BOTH learning from this?

You do rate me. You rate me low.

But we can agree on something: Atush is the bees knees.

atush

mania112 wrote: »

You do rate me. You rate me low.

But we can agree on something: Atush is the bees knees.

I did not take the P*ss with Lozzy, but they are angry and confrontational to those who say it is a scam.

They can take all the cold calls they want, fine and dandy.

And Mania, we don't agree on all, but I rate you fine.

Perelandra

Here's an interesting discussion thread:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/anyone-heard-shenton-wealth-holdings-3738096.html

It's on a different company (Shenton Wealth Holdings), but this company is linked quite closely to Dolphin- see my earlier link. Interestingly much of what was said on this thread is similar to the thoughts that have been made already on this thread.

One additional thought from the Shenton thread is this: If the company is so sure that they can guarantee a 12% return, then why do they not simply borrow the money from a bank (which would be considerably cheaper) and make some extra themselves?

For what it's worth, I rate atush.

Dolphincapital

dolphin capital is not a scam. They have indeed a few buildings in germany in a niche market for tax deductable property investments. One of them , the biggest, is in my neighboring city. It could be a good investment in the end. I nearly bought an apartment. I did not, eventually, after researching a bit.

They are not nearly a "leading" developer in Germany in absolute terms measured by size. They probably are, in the niche market.

they run their business as a set of spv special purpose vehicles with separate balance sheets. All of them are deep in the red. I have not read about an insolvency of one of them yet, though.

Behind the spvs there is a holding that is liable. However, this holding has a paid in capital of 25000 euro.....for 20 spv. Not enough protection for German buyers in case of insolvency of one of the spvs.

Its a bit of a family business.. Father and son. A few somewhat dodgy business relationships, nothing criminal though.

The business model makes a lot of money for agents, not the usual 3-5%, but 10% plus.

Their rating eg by 2 German Rating agencies is excellent. However, this does not tell you anything: just a few days ago a company with the same rating went bust. Just think of all the aaa ratings for financial weapons of mass destruction leading to the financial crisis.

Further, if those ratings could be taken serious, dolphin capital would not have to raise capital at 12 to 15% in gb and ireland and singapore. This is junk bond quality. Apparently the German banks have done their own research.

There is a German website sniffing out dubious investments. Dolphin Capital just made it there. diebewertung.de. They currently disrecommend buying property from dc as too risky. I am waiting for the results of a check by a German legal firm specialised on consumer protection. The check is made from the perspective of German buyers of dc property, not from your perspective.

I will post the results.

Hope this helps.

atush

So who are you the father or the son?