Worried about my graduate prospects

djhworld

I've just completed my second year at the University of Lincoln, studying "Games Computing", while not quite a computer science, it involves many aspects of computing, but tailored for games.

It may sound like a 'mickey-mouse' course, but trust me, the maths, programming and technical expertise required is quite difficult, I wasn't surprised to see a class size fall from 140 in the first year to just 45.

Anyway, recently some things have started to get me down, mainly the position the university holds in the 'good university league table' hosted by The Times. While many may say tables don't matter, I'm pretty certain employers will look down on my degree, favouring those who went to a more respected, established university doing a traditional course.

I was watching an interesting documentary last night on BBC Four, concerning the middle classes. One of the main points it expressed was the abundance of universities in our country and nowadays unless you've got a scroll from the 'blue chip' institutions, you're wasting your time and money.

That's when it hit me, pretty hard. It's started to make me question whether I'm actually going to get a decent job, or am I destined for a supervisors role at Tescos?

I often imagine what the interview would be like for a job, on the one side there's me with my Lincoln degree, on the other there's a person who's at a university higher up in the table.

I can see the employer laughing at me now.

It's disconcerting to think about this, which is why I'm now starting to contemplate getting a masters degree from Nottingham university (14th in the table) just so I can boost my chances of getting anywhere in life.

Sorry for the long post, I just thought this would be somewhere to vent my frustrations and I often wonder if anyone feels the same.

Blacksheep1979

Its a bit late now, but its maybe something you should have researched before going to university. And again not trying to sound negative but just because the maths and technical content in your view is hard doesn't necessarily put it on par in reality or in an employers view with a 'blue chip university'. Luckily you have a few things going for you - you can point out the high failure rate and shows you stick with things and also you are already looking to maybe pad out/better your chances with an MA - personally I think this is an excellent choice and something that you should look into.

Also try get some hands on experience - this counts for loads and in your final year (wether in your degree or MA) apply for as many grad positions as you can, the earlier you apply the better.

seaweasel

Join the club!

If you're serious about getting into game development then I wouldn't worry. It tends to be the newer universities (including my own) that specialise in this subject and many others that the more established ones don't cover.

Since you're only in second year, I'd imagine you'll build up contacts later on through your university and maybe through a placement if you do one. You could also speak to game companies to find out what they're looking for in graduates, there are probably people working there from your course or similar ones. Doing an MSc wouldn't hurt, it will probably make you more employable either way - if you're intent on game development it will give you an advantage, especially if its in a related subject, and if you end up doing something else then it will give you a better chance of getting jobs in other industries.

Also, speak to your tutors about it, that's what they're there for.

Idiophreak

I wouldn't be too worried - there are some opportunities for graduate games developers in this country (ea mainly, but microsoft is opening a games studio in reading iirc, they might do the same..) - a special "gaming" degree may well help you out there (if nothing else, it might help you build a "portfolio" and you might be able to use your final year project as the "example of your work" they often ask for.)

It sounds stupid, but if you want to stand out from the crowd, the best thing to do is pull your finger out now and get a 1st (2:1 at least). Employers will look at that and see that you're capable, irrespective of the university you attended (although, as has been stated above, it would have been a good thing to think about before you started.. )

As far as the masters is concerned, I did pretty much exactly what you're talking about, I had a BSc in Computer Simulation, but got an MSc in Computer Science so that people would take me more seriously and I'd stand out. It's hard to say whether I'd do it again.

On the one hand, I got the first job I applied for when I left uni (and it's no tescos...), so my CV surely looked ok...but on the other hand, I had to pay for the course myself, so have £340/month to pay back to the bank for a couple of years...Which is a bit of a drag, frankly...and if I got my first job without the masters, I'm not sure I wouldn't have managed to find something without it...(on that note, you'll stand a lot better chance of getting computing work and get better wages down south, so may be worth you thinking about moving...)

If, on the other hand, you can really impress people with your BSc result (ie...a first) uni's are more likely to offer you MPhils and things of that nature - things that you get paid for doing. That, clearly, would be nice

Voyager2002

I don't think you need to worry, at least not very much.

The league tables are more about student satisfaction with university facilities and the kind of life they lead there, so if you are reasonably contented with these aspects of your university then you can ignore the survey.

Academic standards do certainly vary between universities, but you are at least doing a course with a solid technical content and will come out with skills that are scarce and in demand. In the job interview situation that you imagine, just suppose that one of the other candidates did Classics at Cambridge but wants a job as a games developer because he likes playing 'Age of Empires'. I think the employer will be laughing, but not at you.

You should certainly consider getting an MSc from a solid and 'traditional' university, but a cheaper option might be getting membership of an established and respected professional body -- perhaps the Institute of Mathematics and its Applications, or the British Computer Society.

remy3

Ok. I'll tell you something. I'm looking to become a stockbroker. I spoke to a recruitment bloke at university a while back. he didn't care what degree I had. He said he had recruited people with history, comp sci, politics, and even finance honours...

I wouldn't worry, really.

dmg24

I really think that this stigma surrounding the newer universities is nonsense. If you want to go into investment banking or the like, then yes, your degree and your university will be looked down on (look at the recruitment stats for these firms, you'll see what I mean!).

If you want to go into a specialist industry, such as games computing, then I am sure that your degree will be highly respected.

Equally if you apply to any of the larger graduate schemes, if you are good enough, then you will get on to them.

I went to an ex poly, studied by distance learning ... and got offered places on two of the top graduate schemes. It can be done x

[Deleted User]

Now, I had an interview to do a placement at the games developer Rage in Liverpool as part of my MSc. They didn't care that i had knowledge of some rather fancy AI and programming concepts, they wanted a working demo

If you are serious about getting a job in a games company, make some working demos. Something innovative would be best, something to show how good you are.

Then get in contact with the HR from people in this list: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/arnel/games-companies.html

Send them a demo, hell, set up a website offering the game/demo for free. If it's good enough, charge Try to build up a link to industry, try to get your honours project with an external firm - industry experience is crucial to get on your CV

I met a graduate the other day in a training course at work who'd done computer game design at Luton Uni (not exactly a red brick uni) and we're paying him mid-20k to do something. I dunno how desperate we are for staff at the moment though

dmg24

If you are in Lincoln, have you approached Games Warehouse in Nottingham for some work experience?

Catseyez

In the past I worked in graduate recruitment for a very well known management consultancy firm. What they wanted to see were graduates that had a minimum 2:1 and were able to complete the application form correctly. You'd be surprised at the number of pepole who couldn't even fill out a form correctly...even those who came from the more 'elite' universities.

It really didn't matter whether a graduate was from Durham or Luton. As long as they met the minimum requirements and could demonstrate some level of competence on their application form, they were invited for interview.

Blacksheep1979

remy3 wrote: »

Ok. I'll tell you something. I'm looking to become a stockbroker. I spoke to a recruitment bloke at university a while back. he didn't care what degree I had. He said he had recruited people with history, comp sci, politics, and even finance honours...

I wouldn't worry, really.

erm quite a bit different from a technical based career though - kinda like an engineer wanting to be a vet - aint gonna happen. To work as a trader they generally want people who can work under pressure and provide results, medical graduates are very favoured by some merchant banks as traders.