Are Scots really treated as "overseas" patients by NHS in England?

robrooo

My partner, who is from Scotland, has been diagnosed with a serious illness and unfortunately needs major medical treatment.

My question is: Is it usual for people from Scotland to be treated as "overseas" patients in England by the NHS, as she has just been told? Are we already that divided?

Basically an administrator at the hospital where her operation is due to take place has been querying her about her eligibility for treatment, i.e worried about whether the costs will be paid (and adding to her stress at a very difficult time), citing the fact that she is from Scotland as the reason for the uncertainty. I did not hear the conversations first hand, but my partner said the administrator explained to her the questions arose because she was from Scotland and "the Scottish are treated as overseas patients".

Is this really true?! I tried to search on the NHS website for details but all references about eligibility refer to the UK, which as I understand it covers both England and Scotland (and of course Wales and NI etc). I could not find any distinction made between the various states/countries within the UK.

Some background and more details on our experiences:

My partner is a full UK citizen and has complete NI records having worked enough years in both Scotland and England (i.e. the UK!) to qualify for a full state pension (even a stint for the MOD in England), the equivalent of 30 years contributions (some years credited for University).

She had kept her registered GP in Scotland because she has been with her for years and feels she has a good relationship. In hindsight this may have been a mistake. Her family are in Scotland and she visits them a few times a year, combining any visits to her GP if necessary.

We have encountered administrative questioning of her eligibility for treatment throughout this whole episode.

It started after she visited our local emergency department on advice from the 111 telephone service. They wanted to refer her to a specialist clinic but could not, apparently because she was not registered with the NHS in England, even though they were able to correctly look up her address in England from just her name when we arrived (we didn't need to give them her NI number or anything else). Anyway, she has subsequently registered with a local GP practice, although at first she was turned away from there and told to come back with her passport, despite having her NI number. So, slightly delayed, she was then able to have the required tests at a specialist clinic - but again just before her appointment she was questioned once again about her status. Sadly the tests confirmed her illness and that she needs a major operation and other treatment, and now we are having the same questions raised from the hospital as outlined above.

Now, she is of Indian descent and maybe this is the reason that her entitlement keeps being questioned, although the last reason cited was (as I said) because she is from Scotland. Or maybe it is simply that her records from Scotland are not accessible in England?

Of course I can understand the concern about treating people from abroad who are not entitled to free NHS services, but she is a UK citizen and has full records of education and employment in the UK. If, as I believe, there is not a problem with Scottish people receiving treatment in England, surely there should be enough information for a hospital anywhere in the UK to check her status. Or is it really the case that being from Scotland does not automatically entitle you to treatment in England, as she appears to have been told?

I would like to point out that all of the health staff we have come into contact with have been brilliant - both knowledgeable, professional and sympathetic, and have confirmed my faith in the NHS.

This_Year

robrooo wrote: »

(we didn't need to give them her NI number or anything else)

robrooo wrote: »

despite having her NI number.

Do you mean her NHS Number or her National Insurance Number?
As they are different things.

Sorry to hear that she needs to have major medical treatment, best wishes xx

ValHaller

This is so wrong. If there was an issue between Scotland and England over provision of NHS services, I think we would all know about it.

I suggest recontacting the administrator, asking them to check and advise within 24 hours (if it can wait this long) and then taking the matter up as a complaint at the highest level in the NHS trust involved. It looks to me like the administrator has a personal bee in their bonnet at the very least.

robrooo

This_Year wrote: »

Do you mean her NHS Number or her National Insurance Number?
As they are different things.

Yes, probably - that's my lack of knowledge I'm afriad - I've luckily had very little contact with health services in my adult life and don't know all the nuances! (much more contact with tax authorities, hence my focus on NI number

That does explain my partner trying to read some number off some form and me not understanding the significance, though.

Thanks for your wishes.

SkintGypsy

It is different, but I don't know what difference the difference makes.

We live in England, but I gave birth to my son in Scotland. When we brought him home I had to have him re-registered to NHS care in England. It only took a phone-call, but there is definitely a different system in place re NHS numbers.

robrooo

ValHaller wrote: »

It looks to me like the administrator has a personal bee in their bonnet at the very least.

Well maybe, but it has now occurred at 3 different places (with different admins, although only the last one cited Scotishness as the reason!). I'm guessing its the NHS number (thanks "This Year" for enlightening me) that we were missing, and for whatever reason its not easy to get them "across the border"!

Well, the good news is that since posting this (long) post I have heard that this aspect is now all sorted.

Now we can hopefully just concentrate on getting her better with no more hurdles.

tooldle

Not overseas as such, but the three organisations are seperate.
I would suspect that the hospital is simply trying to establish which NHS should cover the cost, Scotland or England. Some specialist services are not available in Scotland and there is a separate fund set up to cover the costs of these treatment, which I think is called the national services delivery scheme, or something similar. There are therefore three potential pots to which the costs can be billed.
I suspect the confusing situation of GP in Scotland and residential address in England, is the cause of the dilema.

This_Year

Glad it's been resolved - it does sound like the administrator was being over-cautious. Now you can put the admin bit behind you and look to the treatment and your partner's recovery.

My thoughts are with you both.

(NI number is for tax, benefits and pensions purposes; NHS number is the number that your health records are recorded against AFAIK)

jackyann

So sorry to hear this - and yes, at some point, it needs to be the subject of a complaint.
However, I think the issue is that your partner is not registered with a local GP.
For many years now, finance is channelled through the authority (called various things, PCT, LCG, whatever, lose track!) that the patient is registered with. For most people, they register with a local GP, go along to get health care and are referred as necessary to providers of care to that authority.
If you go to A&E, a walk-in centre or something, they ask who your GP is, both to send information back to the person who holds your records, and to chase up the finance.
Although this principle remains the same, yet another change on April 1st this year means that yet again there is a change in the authorities that need notifying, and staff are confused. As the NHS is administered differently in Scotland, it adds to the confusion. All exacerbated by the fuss about checking that people who turn up at A&E / walk-ins are entitled to further NHS treatment (ie: in addition to emergency treatment)
So I think your partner has got caught in the perfect storm of admin. Such a shame to add to your worry; I so often used to find that senior managemeyt didn't tell admin staff what they needed to know at times of change.
Hope all goes well. My recent NHS experience is: care - superb; admin - confused; management - disastrous.

Dunroamin

Could I just add that she really ought to register with a local GP - staying with the one in Scotland in the hope that she'll only be ill when visiting family is pretty daft.

fluffnutter

I can believe anything of the new NHS.co.uk.