e-petition

365days

Please take a look and sign if you agree.

Thanks.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47657

'Self employed NRP's should have CSA arrears added to their tax bill'

365days

Just bumping up!

mania112

So someone who is self-employed can avoid paying CSA?

How's that?

kevin137

This is not the place for an education on the ways to avoid CSA for self employed...

Not implying that is why you want to know of course, but self employed can be a law unto themselves regarding the CSA.

However by the same token they can also be royally screwed when living beyond there means and assumed earnings...

mania112

All i meant to ask was that Self-Employed don't avoid CSA, do they?

They are bound to the same laws, but based on their self-assessment rather than PAYE.

If the e-petition suggests that self-employed workers are falsifying their SA that's a whole different problem.

kevin137

mania112 wrote: »

All i meant to ask was that Self-Employed don't avoid CSA, do they?

IN the real world they use HMRC and accounts from previous years, and as there are a few that falsify there returns then yes it is very easily manipulated...! As for what the CSA can do, they can only go by how the law is written and that means HMRC figures, or the PWC applying for a variation which is sometimes difficult to prove...

mania112

Right, so what i'm saying is that the rules are fine.

If the PWC is suggesting an NRP of fraud, we have a justice system for that crime already.

clearingout

no, the rules are not fine. It is perfectly possible to manipulate your accounts in a legal and above board way to show that you have earnt next to nothing. If the HMRC accept this, so will the CSA. You then get situations with the NRP living the highlife in a 6 bed detached house with three new cars on the driveway and 4 foreign holidays a year who earns only £120 a week. You have self employed people who don't do tax returns as it's all cash in hand. You can report them till the cows come home and even if prosecuted, there is no comeback from a child maintenance point of view. And then you have self employed people like my ex who do a mix of cash in hand and contract work, who advertise all over the internet, who dont' do tax returns and who quite simply, refuse to pick up the phone or answer any letters from the CSA. What do the CSA do in that situation?!

365days

Presently PAYE NRP's can have their arrears taken from earnings. If a self employed NRP falls into arrears then it has to go down other routes. If arrears could be added to the tax bill it would speed up the process of claiming arrears.

The fact that some self employed 'cook the books' to justify lower assessments is a totally different issue.

365days

clearingout wrote: »

no, the rules are not fine. It is perfectly possible to manipulate your accounts in a legal and above board way to show that you have earnt next to nothing. If the HMRC accept this, so will the CSA. You then get situations with the NRP living the highlife in a 6 bed detached house with three new cars on the driveway and 4 foreign holidays a year who earns only £120 a week. You have self employed people who don't do tax returns as it's all cash in hand. You can report them till the cows come home and even if prosecuted, there is no comeback from a child maintenance point of view. And then you have self employed people like my ex who do a mix of cash in hand and contract work, who advertise all over the internet, who dont' do tax returns and who quite simply, refuse to pick up the phone or answer any letters from the CSA. What do the CSA do in that situation?!

My case has just gone to the legal debt team. It seems there are things they can do. If a self employed person has put down xxxxx for a self cert mortgage for example, the csa can take that as assumed earnings. Likewise, any figure the nrp has put down for getting credit can be taken as assumed earnings. It has been a very long frustrating journey getting the case to the Legal debt team but they do seem to be moving things along very quickly now at least. Don't want to say too much here, but pm me if you want more info.

mania112

clearingout wrote: »

no, the rules are not fine. It is perfectly possible to manipulate your accounts in a legal and above board way to show that you have earnt next to nothing. If the HMRC accept this, so will the CSA. You then get situations with the NRP living the highlife in a 6 bed detached house with three new cars on the driveway and 4 foreign holidays a year who earns only £120 a week. You have self employed people who don't do tax returns as it's all cash in hand.

No, that's not legal - that is fraud.

Point i'm making is, it isn't the CSA you need to petition, it's the method of self-assessment that you're saying is wrong.

Besides, I don't fully understand how you intend to better the system of maintenance from Self-Employed NRPs?