What is the definition of parking?

niandsa

Whilst away over Easter, we were photographed entering and leaving a private car park on the Lleyn peninsular, Wales and today received a demand for payment of £85.

We were in the car park for a grand total of 16 min (so they say - I'm sure it wasn't that long?!?!). My partner and I never left the vehicle (although our 2 boys briefly popped out to see if they could see the sea!) and we never turned the engine off.

I was vaguely aware of the parking notices but paid little attention as we didn't park.

Do you think I have grounds to appeal as we didn't actually park? Or should I just cough up?

Coupon-mad

You are asking the wrong question if this was from a private company! If so then it's a scam and you are taking it too seriously, they are not a parking 'authority' or anything and it's not a fine. The definition of parking is irrelevant to your appeal over this; there's so much more you need to know about to get this piece of trash cancelled.

NO-ONE, BUT NO-ONE ON MSE 'COUGHS UP' FOR A FAKE PCN FROM PARKING EYE OR ANY OTHER USELESS PPC!

Who issued this 'ticket'?

Fergie76

niandsa wrote: »

Whilst away over Easter, we were photographed entering and leaving a private car park on the Lleyn peninsular, Wales and today received a demand for payment of £85.

We were in the car park for a grand total of 16 min (so they say - I'm sure it wasn't that long?!?!). My partner and I never left the vehicle (although our 2 boys briefly popped out to see if they could see the sea!) and we never turned the engine off.

I was vaguely aware of the parking notices but paid little attention as we didn't park.

Do you think I have grounds to appeal as we didn't actually park? Or should I just cough up?

I would consider 16 minutes to be parked, unless the car was moving the whole time, but then how would the boys get out?

In fact any time car is stationery I would considered it parked, unless in due to traffic conditions, like traffic lights, jam etc.

However listen to C-M in post 2.

Coupon-mad

This is the sort of template challenge letter that Parking Cowboys have devised:

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/


HTH

nigelbb

Proper parking regulations e.g on double yellow lines etc don't refer to parking at all but to 'waiting'. However the PPC's rules are not proper regulations so you might want to consider the definition of parking in the Oxford English Dictionary:-

verb
[with object]
bring (a vehicle that one is driving) to a halt and leave it temporarily, typically in a car park or by the side of the road:

or Wikipedia:-

Parking is the act of stopping a vehicle and leaving it unoccupied.

If you are sat with the engine running you are not parked by any normal definition.

Stroma

nigelbb wrote: »

If you are sat with the engine running you are not parked by any normal definition.

I disagree with that, the engine running has no meaning, if you are in a council car park and are appealing a ticket, would you use the engine was running as a defence?

I do realise this is not the case here

Dukesy

Stroma wrote: »

I disagree with that, the engine running has no meaning, if you are in a council car park and are appealing a ticket, would you use the engine was running as a defence?

I do realise this is not the case here

On this note, I have been told to move on a couple of times by council parking wardens whilst parked, but sitting in the car with the engine running, in a loading bay whilst OH has nipped into a shop or whatever. Presumably were this to be defined as being parked, the warden would have ticketed me there and then.

niandsa

Thanks everyone - it was Parking Eye. I will check out the links suggested. I had taken a look on the POPLA website and wasn't sure whether our situation fitted into one of their 4 reasons to appeal. I like the links for the definition of parking - thanks!

Coupon-mad

niandsa wrote: »

Thanks everyone - it was Parking Eye. I will check out the links suggested. I had taken a look on the POPLA website and wasn't sure whether our situation fitted into one of their 4 reasons to appeal. I like the links for the definition of parking - thanks!

The definition of parking DOES NOT HELP YOU. Stopping with the engine running CAN get a Council PCN so it IS 'parked'. Therefore you can't argue that it isn't 'parked' as far as a fake PCN from a private company is concerned. You would lose at POPLA with that argument!

When you are at POPLA stage, the first box is the one to tick 'I am not liable for the parking charge' - plus any others you fancy ticking as well! And when you have appealed to PE and got a rejection - pleeeeeease do not just fire of a POPLA appeal without showing us your draft first.

Here's one I just wrote regarding CPS (different than yours in some ways but gives you the sort of idea):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4506249

and here's a first challenge re PE but you'd need to draft your own version, or do a simpler version like that poster chose to do at first for PE:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4509519


HTH