More on Second Hand Car Purchases..

parkview094

Hi all,

Apologies, this is an often posted topic, but I hope with a slightly different twist that I'm looking for some thoughts on..

In February I bought a 9 year old car from a independent dealer with a warranty. The car had a full manufacturers service history from new.

2 Weeks after collecting the car, a myriad of warning lights came on and the car put it's self into 'limp home mode'. Spoke to the garage who immediately agreed to fix the problem, so the car was AA'd back to them.

This last weekend, the same problem has occurred again. Since owning the car, this will be the 3rd time that it's been back to them to fix the problem. Since owning the car, it's either been with them or undrivable for 5 weeks.

Each time I call the dealership, they are more than happy to take the car back for inspection / repair - but they just don't seem to be able to fix it.

This morning, I've contacted the main dealer who last serviced the car back in September last year, and it transpires the previous owner booked the car in with them for exactly the same fault. The main dealer had carried out a series of diagnostics and replaced the battery, but it looks like the problem has just never been solved.

The problem is - whilst the dealership I purchased the car from is cooperative and "investigating" the problem - do I have right to ask for a full refund? The car is basically unusable in my opinion.

I also purchased the car in full on a credit card. I've spoken to the credit card company, but their stance is that as long as the dealership is being responsive, there is no recourse through the CC company.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks in advance.

parkview094

Update - this weekend will be 9 weeks of owning the car. It's either been off the road undriveable or with the garage (where it is currently) for 6 of those weeks.

Called today for a status update and they have been unable to diagnose the problem so have sent it to a main dealer for diagnostic/repair. Unfortunately, the main dealer did not have availability to look at the car so a further 1 week has been lost.

Can this go on indefinitely?

patman99

This will go on until the warranty runs-out, then they will wash their hands of it.
I am having a similar issue with a car of the same age (although mine is more a case of bits hanging-off & fluid leaks).
Follow my lead and issue a 'Notice Before Action'. Give them 14 days to fix it, or offer you a replacement or refund.

maninthestreet

Another 'Guess what car I have' thread?
What is the make and model of the car?

Agricolae

I would say you're entitled to ask for a refund, taking into account the length of time and the use you've had out of the vehicle. I only say this because it appears reasonable efforts to repair the car have failed, so it may well be junk.

The car is not of satisfactory quality because it's broken down several times very shortly after you bought it. Unless of course, the dealer brought the problem to your attention and said he'd knock something off the price for it etc., then I think you have a decent case.

It does not matter one jot that the dealer is being responsive. The liability of the dealer and the credit card company is joint and several. This means you can pursue either of them without having to wait for the other to respond. I would recommend seeing if you can get a refund out of the dealer first, but otherwise be prepared to start submitting large amounts of information to the bank.

If you do take it up with the CC provider, make sure you are able to evidence the things you've said above, so they don't have to take your word for it (they won't). This means making copies of invoices, diagnostics, repair bills, emails, or whatever else you might have.

Ultimately the CC company may ask you to get an independent opinion on the car. Often they will expect you to pay to get this done, however if it turns out in your favour they will refund whatever you paid so long as it's not unreasonable.

parkview094

maninthestreet wrote: »

Another 'Guess what car I have' thread?
What is the make and model of the car?

The car in question this time is a BMW 5 series.. Does that make a big difference?

parkview094

Update - week 10, 7 weeks off the road. Had been travelling this week, but picked up a voicemail from the independent garage advising that BMW believe the most likely cause is a flat battery. The garage have ordered a new one and will drive it for a day to test that has fixed the problem.

At least there is some consistency from BMW here as the main dealer the previous owner took the car too in September last year also diagnosed the same likely cause and a new battery was installed then. Given that battery is now only 6 months old, I've emailed the garage stating my skepticism that this will fix the problem with a copy of the invoice for the previous new battery enclosed.

I've also formally written to the garage asking for a full refund. Now I guess I have to wait some more...

ValHaller

Flat battery seems to be a consistent theme, but I am thinking this goes deeper than just replacing the battery. Like a voltage regulator, alternator or worn fan belt kind of issue.

parkview094

In case people are interested - a quick update on the saga.
Going into week 14 of ownership now which will be the 11th week of the car being off the road or with the garage.
The Garage decided not to respond formally to my letter, although speaking to them on the phone it had clearly been received.
Picked the car up with the new battery and it failed again in the usual way on the same day.
I've once again asked for a refund, but the garage believe they are compliant with the law by attempting to repair the car. Took it back down to them again on the weekend just gone and have been lent a replacement car whilst it's being fixed.
I'm not sure what's going to break this cycle at the moment, it does feel somewhat as though this could run and run forever. At least the CC company tell me I have 6 months from date of purchase to take it up with them.
Final Irony? ..we had a perfectly good and reliable ford focus, but decided it would be nice to have something slightly bigger and more luxurious so hence bought the BMW. The loan car I've got? Yup - Ford Focus!

maninthestreet

So how many times has the garage attempted to fix the car?
At some point you will need to formally reject the vehicle and ask for a refund.

visidigi

parkview094 wrote: »

In case people are interested - a quick update on the saga.
Going into week 14 of ownership now which will be the 11th week of the car being off the road or with the garage.
The Garage decided not to respond formally to my letter, although speaking to them on the phone it had clearly been received.
Picked the car up with the new battery and it failed again in the usual way on the same day.
I've once again asked for a refund, but the garage believe they are compliant with the law by attempting to repair the car. Took it back down to them again on the weekend just gone and have been lent a replacement car whilst it's being fixed.
I'm not sure what's going to break this cycle at the moment, it does feel somewhat as though this could run and run forever. At least the CC company tell me I have 6 months from date of purchase to take it up with them.
Final Irony? ..we had a perfectly good and reliable ford focus, but decided it would be nice to have something slightly bigger and more luxurious so hence bought the BMW. The loan car I've got? Yup - Ford Focus!

I'd say you have been more than tolerant and two batteries in 6 months simple isn't right.

Submit a letter before action to the garage recorded post, the fact you have previous diagnosis, evidence of replacement and historical repeat offences is very much in your favour. Ensure you have a. Full timeline of events and note all correspondence moving forward.

You either need to break the dealer correspondence with you, whereby you can go to the cc company with the case or have the dealer cough up for the car (reduction for use should be minimal or even non existent given the problems and hassle)