First reports of someone losing in Court on bank charges Blog Discussion

99point99

Alan_Cross wrote: »

Your advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely

Alan Cross

Im not a lawyer and am still in the process of making my own claim - however Iv just learnt something new today that may help you:
Courts are asking people to be more specific about their claims!!!!!
I think that its important to send a DETAILED 'particulars of claim' to moneyclaim - the sooner the better (dont forget to send a copy to the bank). Just so that the court is in NO DOUBT as to exactly what you are claiming - Im sending letters today to MCO, Natwest and Halifax - Im owed nearly £4k myself by 3 banks.

I think if its an emergency speak to consumeractiongroup.co.uk. They will no doubt know how to approach a case where the claimant is dyslexic.

As for me Im not taking any chances with judges not knowing exactly what Im claiming for. Along with the detailed Particulars of Claim Im including a full schedule of charges and Im categorising every charge by date ie. card Misuse charges, Over the limit Charges etc. Just so we can be clear exactly what Iv been charged for.

Dont forget to take your T&C's to court if you make it that far....and read about what to take with you from consumeractiongroup.co.uk - they have information packs to take with you as evidence. Oh..and they even recommend a few guidance books to read before you get to court. Theres a book Im ordering called "SMALL CLAIMS LAW-KIT - Claims of up to £5,000" off eBay.

So...back to the detailed particulars of claim, Im sending the letter below to:
The Court Manager,
Money Claim On Line
Northampton County Court
21-27 St. Katharine's Street
Northampton
NN1 2LH

And the folowing is a transcript of the letter:

Name
address line 1
address line 2
address line 3
address line 4
Tel: xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxxx

20 April 2007


Dear Sir/Madam

XXX XXX XXX –v- National Westminster Bank plc.
Claim No: XXXXXXX
Date Issued: 11-05-2007

Detailed Particulars of Claim

Please find enclosed a schedule of unfair charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest, in addition to the amount in charges, equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £xxx.xx.

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim, your website moneyclaim.co.uk does not allow me enough space to enclose these details.

In addition I would like to make the court aware that Natwest did not reply to any of my correspondence with them in regard to this matter at all in the month prior to me filing this claim. Their customer service department has let me down severely and will no doubt have the 2 copies of the attached schedule of unfair charges that I sent to them, as I made them aware of these through registered post 5 April and also hand delivered to my branch address at 12.30pm on 21 April to a Natwest customer service officer/advisor (staff member's name).

The attached charges have been levied from my account over the last 5,5 years. I now understand that the regime of fees which they have been applying to my account in relation to:
Account misuse fee
Cheque return fee
Card misuse fee
Unarranged borrowing fee
Unauthorised overdraft fee
Unpaid DD fee
Unpaid cheque fee
Unpaid standing order fee
Exceeding Authorised Overdraft Limit
Exceeding Unauthorised Overdraft Limit
Direct Debit/Standing Order/Cheque returned fee
Irregular fee
Paid refferal fee

...are disproportionate and extravagant - contrary to common law and consumer legislation (The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 No 2083). If Natwest claim they are not, then will they please demonstrate this by letting me have a full & detailed breakdown of the costs to which they have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that their penalties really do reflect their costs.

If the charges are the price of a contractual service then their price exceeds what is reasonable as required by S.15, Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which they agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that they would conduct themselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that they have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in Natwest’s integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that Natwest’s repeated representations that their charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Natwest’s concealment of the true nature of their charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.


Yours sincerely
Signed
xxxx xxxxxxx

Edinburghlass_2

MSE_Lawrence wrote: »

Just a quick reminder to say that this thread was intended for discussion of Martin's blog about the recent bank charges court case.

If you've questions about your own bank charge reclaiming campaign, please post them on the Reclaim Your Bank Charges board instead; you're likely to get a better response, and this helps to keep information in the forums organised.

Thanks

Alan Close has posted on the Reclaim Bank Charges board as to exactly what the court want and while this is well meaning, the case has gone from MCOL and it is the Judge/Court who are asking for specific information.

Alan_Cross_2

Thank you very, very much 99.99, it is exactly what we need

I have adapted your letter and would be pleased to read your observations on it before we complete it and post.

It is daunting having to face Judge Cooke alone - there must be more people waiting to be judged by him and the advice drafted by 99.99 and redrafted below is invaluable.

It would be very good to get Judge Cooke to have to change his mind -
as we have to win over Cooke in court and soon.

This is the remix of 99.99 Masterpiece.

Intro

Im not a lawyer and am still in the process of making my own claim - however Iv just learnt something new today that may help you:
Courts are asking people to be more specific about their claims!!!!!

I think that its important to send a DETAILED 'particulars of claim' to moneyclaim - the sooner the better (dont forget to send a copy to the bank). Just so that the court is in NO DOUBT as to exactly what you are claiming.

I think if its an emergency speak to consumeractiongroup.co.uk.

They will no doubt know how to approach a case where the claimant is dyslexic.

Along with the detailed Particulars of Claim Im including a full schedule of charges and Im categorising every charge by

date
type of charges,
1
2
3
4
5

amount
interest etc. etc

Just so we can be clear exactly what Iv been charged for.

Dont forget to take your T&C's to court if you make it that far....and read about what to take with you from consumeractiongroup.co.uk - they have information packs to take with you as evidence.

Oh..and they even recommend a few guidance books to read before you get to court. Theres a book Im ordering called "SMALL CLAIMS LAW-KIT - Claims of up to £5,000" off eBay.


Finally

I think that its important to send a DETAILED 'particulars of claim' to moneyclaim - the sooner the better (dont forget to send a copy to the bank). Just so that the court is in NO DOUBT as to exactly what you are claiming -


So...back to the detailed particulars of claim,

Remixed from 99.99 original

To

The Court Manager,
Money Claim On Line
Northampton County Court
21-27 St. Katharine's Street
Northampton
NN1 2LH

And the folowing is a transcript of the letter:

Name
address line 1
address line 2
address line 3
address line 4
Tel: xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxxx

DATE 2007


Dear Sir/Madam

XXX XXX XXX –v- Lloyds TSB.
Claim No: XXXXXXX
Date Issued: DATE 2007

Detailed Particulars of Claim

Please find enclosed a schedule of unfair charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest, in addition to the amount in charges, equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £xxx.xx.

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim, your website moneyclaim.co.uk does not allow me enough space to enclose these details.

In addition I would like to make the court aware that Lloyds TSB did not reply to any of my correspondence with them in regard to this matter in the month prior to me filing this claim.

They should have 2 copies of the attached schedule of unfair charges that I sent to them, as I made them aware of these through registered post on DxAxTxE

Also I have hand delivered to my ………… branch address at TIME / DATE to a Lloyds TSB customer service officer/advisor (staff member's name).

The attached charges have been levied from my account over the last 5,5 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which they have been applying to my account are in relation to:


Cheque return fee
Card misuse fee
Unpaid DD fee
Unpaid cheque fee
Unpaid standing order fee
Unarranged borrowing fee
Unauthorised overdraft fee
Exceeding Authorised Overdraft Limit fee
Exceeding Unauthorised Overdraft Limit fee
Direct Debit/Standing Order/Cheque returned fee
Irregular fee
Account misuse fee
Paid referral fee

I contend that these charges are both disproportionate and extravagant - contrary to common law and consumer legislation (The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999 No 2083).

If Lloyds TSB claim they are not excessive may I request a detailed breakdown of the costs to which they have been put by as a result of my individual breaches, in order to reassure me that their penalties really do reflect their costs.

It is clear the charges are the price of a contractual service, then their price exceeds what is reasonable as required by S.15, Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which they agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that they would conduct themselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am shocked that they have operated my account as I had always had confidence in the integrity of Lloyds TSB.

However I consider that Lloyds TSB repeated representations that their charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and dishonourable.

I was charged £741 on one day with a monthly income of £800 with no letter, phone call or email to warn me – and then I was trapped.

When these charges started I had been in credit for a number of years but now I am over £5000 in debt - the same amount as the charges and interest taken from me.

These charges, have devasted the last 5 years of my life and I seek justice in this court.

Yours sincerely

Signed


xxxx xxxxxxx

Alan_Cross_2

Hi, Martin’s asked me to post this in these circumstances: Sorry, your post had to be deleted as it has been posted elsewhere and that’s one of the site’s rules (please see this rule). If you have any questions about this policy please email [EMAIL="%20abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]

System

Alan, have a browse through the Reclaim your bank charges board.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=102

I wish you well and welcome to the boards.

Edinburghlass_2

This is Alan's other thread from the Reclaim board...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=460355

99point99

Alan_Cross wrote: »

Thank you very, very much 99.99, it is exactly what we need

I have adapted your letter and would be pleased to read your observations on it before we complete it and post.

Hey good luck friend - i think its great of you to be helping someone out the way you are! :T let us know how its going! Just remember to BE PREPARED. Dont let your friend arrive in court without ALL the right info and knowing what to say!! :T fingers crossed for ya both.
Bran

jomish

Lloyds TSB paid me by on the court date. They did not pay me the interest which I claimed but I was happy just to win. Might claim wasted time costs though!

99point99

hey guys - just a morale boosting letter for you guys worried about that freak HSBC result - well I thought there was no way I would get any money back from my claims after all that happened but Natwest AND Halifax have just paid up this week - even after Natwest decided to defend my claim - they rolled over at the last minute after I sent them a comprehensive and detailed POC with an included section on 'estimated cost to the bank'.

Lucky for me it didnt reach court but....you have nothing to lose anyway even if by the smallest chance you do end up in court. Apparently many judges are starting to insist that banks settle out of court - what it all means is that banks are STILL paying out (Im an example of that), most judges are on our side (the side of the law) :-))

ccridersuz

Ok, So to date I have not got so far as small claims court, was going to but was told to put on hold due to court case. (last September). Now my question is this, I was claiming back 6 years, but due to the length of time the court case has taken, I am now 8 months over my six years, So by having to wait for this court case to make a ruling, I am technically losing over £1500. (April - Sept) Do I still use the original dates. as per my original 1st letter? or do I and others like me, have to start all over again? only working back 6 years from now? It seems to me that people will be like myself, missing out an important period of charges. Will any OFT ruling be made because of the lenght of the investigation/ruling. As once again it is not the banks who are going to lose out.