Bank charges not unfair. Bank wins first court case

jamesd

One person for each please post if:

1. Lloyds has written to you telling you that you have breached your account agreement by having a non-agreed overdraft.

2. Lloyds has written to you telling you that you have breached your account agreement by exceeding an agreed overdraft.

3. Lloyds has reported to a credit reference agency that you are in default of your account agreement because of an overdraft.

Just one person for each since the main purpose is to determine if Lloyds' claim to the judge that these are not breaches of the contract is consistent with how it acts and what it tells customers who do these things.

Also, if it is claiming in this case that these are not defaults but is reporting them as defaults to credit reference agencies, if we accept the decision in this case then it appears it is falsely reporting to credit reference agencies that the accounts are in default. I assume that's not a legal activity.

kennyboy66_2

It is profoundly depressing seeing so many people trying to defend bank's indefensible charges. I have never been stung for charges myself, however one of my employees was charged £60 for going £4.98 overdrawn for 1 day.
The bank was Lloyds & she brought the statement in to show me this morning. I was absolutley astonished and pointed her to Martins article on reclaiming charges.

The banks are preying on the poorer people in society as badly as loan sharks and drug dealers do.

Anyone who supports the bank's view in these circumstances should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

dunstonh

It is profoundly depressing seeing so many people trying to defend bank's indefensible charges. I have never been stung for charges myself, however one of my employees was charged £60 for going £4.98 overdrawn for 1 day.
The bank was Lloyds & she brought the statement in to show me this morning. I was absolutley astonished and pointed her to Martins article on reclaiming charges

Would it not have been better for the employee to contact Lloyds who almost certainly would refund that for such a small amount.

I have never been stung for charges myself

You will be soon. Because of this free banking is going to come to an end.

I was absolutley astonished and pointed her to Martins article on reclaiming charges.

Thats the problem with the whole thing. Jump straight to claims companies or court action without even discussing it with the bank.

HelpWhereIcan

Interesting idea James

jamesd wrote: »

3. Lloyds has reported to a credit reference agency that you are in default of your account agreement because of an overdraft.

Also, if it is claiming in this case that these are not defaults but is reporting them as defaults to credit reference agencies, if we accept the decision in this case then it appears it is falsely reporting to credit reference agencies that the accounts are in default. I assume that's not a legal activity.

I would have thought that it could be argued that the two are unrelated. Lloyds TSB could argue that the fact that they consider the account in default to be unrelated to the charges ie. the account may be in default because of the overall conduct rather than particular items/events that may have led to charges being applied.

They could argue that any default on the account is actually to do with failure of the customer to repay their debt incurred, not the fact that they went overdrawn or exceeded any arranged overdraft. After all, all overdrafts (and most loans & credit cards) are repayable in full on demand- the bank could argue that it was the failure to repay the said overdraft on demand that led to the default. I would love to see two solicitors arguing the minutae of that one!!

I have seen quite a few credit files and very few of them have a default relating to a bank account (mainly loans, cards etc). Those that do tend to have been preceeded by a demand for repayment of the overdraft in full by a certain date which has not been met.

From what I know, banks do not register a default just because a payment has been returned or an overdraft limited exceeded.

The other 2 points may have legs though.

jamesd

HelpWhereICan, that's an interesting argument. If it's not a breach of the contract for them to go overdrawn, even exceeding the facility, why would the bank have a basis for reporting that conduct as a default? Indeed, if there's no breach, how could the bank get a CCJ against a customer to try to get the money back? At some point the bank seems to have to say that there's a default or have the county court reject the claim because there has been no breach of the agreement and I assume that you can't properly obtain a CCJ when there's no breach of an agreement.

Perhaps there's a market opportunity here for claims companies working with customers Lloyds has taken to the county courts...

Say someone has a 1000 overdraft facility and uses it, operating within the facility at all times, then the bank withdraws the facility. Customer can't pay on demand and your argument is that the bank can then have that as the default situation? And the customer can presumably then argue that subsequent charges are unfair penalty charges because they are incurred as a result of the default?

I'm not really after a lot of cases - simply one of each where Lloyds lawyers argued exactly the opposite of what they argued in this case, leaving them to reconcile and explain their conduct to a judge. Assuming that they have done so, and I note that Lloyds is a respected bank and I actually assume that it would not countenance such conduct.

kennyboy66_2

dunstonh wrote: »

Would it not have been better for the employee to contact Lloyds who almost certainly would refund that for such a small amount.



You will be soon. Because of this free banking is going to come to an end.



Thats the problem with the whole thing. Jump straight to claims companies or court action without even discussing it with the bank.

1) She had already contacted her bank - they refused to refund the charges.
2) I pay for food, my house, my car - I don't have a problem with paying bank charges. I'm happy not to bludge off the poorer people in society.
3) See point 1

You seem awfully bitter Dunstonh, have those nasty people at the FSA stopped you selling inappropriate endownments and home income plans?

toonfish

kennyboy66 wrote: »

I pay for food, my house, my car - I don't have a problem with paying bank charges. I'm happy not to bludge off the poorer people in society.

It's not about "bludging off poor people". Would you be happy to pay double the road fund licence, so that those that choose not to pay are allowed to get away with it, or an extra 20p for a loaf of bread in order that the shoplifters can help themselves?

Some of the charges are unwarranted, but as has been stated the bank will often refund these anyway - people running up £'000s in unauthorised charges are just taking the rest of us for a ride if they are allowed not to pay them.

dunstonh

1) She had already contacted her bank - they refused to refund the charges.

That would indicate that it isnt a one off or an accidental occurance. It would suggest more frequent

2) I pay for food, my house, my car - I don't have a problem with paying bank charges. I'm happy not to bludge off the poorer people in society.

Sorry. I work for a living. I dont want to fund their inability to budget just so they can pay for Sky, live on takeaways or go on holiday to Spain twice a year. Our area has some of lowest wages in the country but the decent individuals dont have problems with their bank.

moonrakerz

toonfish wrote: »

I'm pleased for Lloyds TSB, about time someone took a stand.

"Took a stand" ? - they never even turned up !

I have to wonder if this rather strange judgement was done deliberately to push this to the High court to get a definitive ruling.

kennyboy66_2

Still waiting for someone to explain how a charge of £60 for going £4.98 overdrawn for 1 day would be considered a reasonable charge.

I apologise Dunstonh, I have just seen another of your posts, where someone else was touting for business. You are clearly one of the good guys on this site.

I was out of order.