Rogue ATMs: cause(s) and redress?

meer53

ATM's aren't clever enough to know whether the cash has been successfully dispensed.

Authorisation is taken when you input your PIN. The withdrawal will show immediately on the banks systems. If it's an electronic failure, the system usually automatically corrects itself. All banks have disputes departments to deal with these sort of issues when an automatic reversal doesn't happen. These are manually investigated which is why set timescales are involved.

Standard procedures at all banks really.

rb10

meer53 wrote: »

ATM's aren't clever enough to know whether the cash has been successfully dispensed.

Yes they are - and this is why they automatically refunded the OP's money back into their account.

Leaving him with zero cause for complaint.

System

rb10 wrote: »

Yes they are - and this is why they automatically refunded the OP's money back into their account.

Not quite. Not a refund. The rogue debit simply disappeared from my list of recent transactions - but not until the end of the next business day. I'm still wondering what the excuse is for this taking so long. The machines tell my bank in real time "card NN linked to account AA has asked to withdraw £XX." Why can't they add in real time "Oops, didn't dispense it" ?

I'm not complaining, just curious. I would have been frantic, and complaining, if the rogue debit had emptied my account and I had consequently been without cash from Saturday until Wednesday morning.

jonesMUFCforever

YoungNick wrote: »

Sorry, my thread title is probably too short to be clear. I'm not expecting any personal compensation. I merely wanted expert answers to the questions I posed, including one about how the process for redress works.

(a) How can a machine be so badly programmed that it will debit an account without checking whether it has actually issued any money?
(b) How does the subsequent disappearing of the rogue debit work?

The answers so far are
(a) Not worth the trouble of getting it right, because this malfunction is rare - or alternatively 'relatively common', and is (normally?) corrected automatically after 1 (?) business day.
(b) Don't know / not saying.

The suggestion that I authorised my bank to debit my account based on a mistaken claim from Lloyds TSB is strange, and in my view inconsistent with the guidance from the former FSA, now FCA, to say nothing of basic banking law. It is also contrary to common sense. Imagine parallels in other circumstances:
Me (putting £3 on the counter): Pint of Hooky please.
Landlord (taking £3 and pulling pump): Oops, pump's broken. No beer for you, but I'll keep your £3 for a vaguely defined time. Raise a dispute via the Brewers, and you'll get a refund when they've checked whether your pint is still in the barrel.

Where do you want me to begin?
You did authorise the transaction by putting your card in the ATM and entering your pin and asking for a sum of money.

The machine can fail for a number of reasons none of which are to do with poor programming
1 Some sod tried his/her bent card in the vain hope it would give them money.
2 Note jam - this can happen at any time regardless of how careful the boxes are filled.
3 Power failure just as you put your card in.
4 Software problems causing the machine to close - this can happen with any computer as we all know.

To solve the rogue transactions - all you need to do is contact the Co=op and tell them about not receiving cash - you should receive a refund same day and the bank claims the money back from Lloyds.

If you are not happy with all this stick to a COOP machine or go into branch to cash.

There are tens of millions of withdrawals every day and 99.9% complete without a hitch.

JuicyJesus

Why does it matter so much how the reversal of the withdrawal has taken place?

System

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

To solve the rogue transactions - all you need to do is contact the Co=op and tell them about not receiving cash - you should receive a refund same day and the bank claims the money back from Lloyds.

It wasn't a refund. It was the disappearance of an incorrect (and possibly, I wonder, provisional?) debit entry that the Co-op had generated based on mistaken information the Co-op had received from Lloyds. And it wasn't the same day.

There are tens of millions of withdrawals every day and 99.9% complete without a hitch.

If so, there are tens of thousands of rogue debits every day. It's worse than I thought.
Originally, I was just mildly curious about how the disappearance of a rogue debit works. Now that it appears that none of you bank people actually know, I am becoming more curious.

DJBenson

Slow news day? :rotfl:

agrinnall

YoungNick wrote: »

Originally, I was just mildly curious about how the disappearance of a rogue debit works. Now that it appears that none of you bank people actually know, I am becoming more curious.

Well, it's pretty unlikely that nobody knows, as the people who are responsible for the programmes that handle transaction posting at the Co-op should know. But it's also unlikely that anyone else will know precisely how the Co-op does it, and unless one of the few that do is also a poster on here the chances are it's not going to ever be fully answered.

jonesMUFCforever

YoungNick wrote: »

It wasn't a refund. It was the disappearance of an incorrect (and possibly, I wonder, provisional?) debit entry that the Co-op had generated based on mistaken information the Co-op had received from Lloyds. And it wasn't the same day.

If so, there are tens of thousands of rogue debits every day. It's worse than I thought.
Originally, I was just mildly curious about how the disappearance of a rogue debit works. Now that it appears that none of you bank people actually know, I am becoming more curious.

I really think you need to get out more.
!!!!!! destroy the bank card you have you are not safe to use it.
I have used ATM's for over 30 years and only once can I remember having problems with them and that was abroad!

Please remember from now on just to use the bank you have an account with - leave other banks machines alone - this is the only way for you to get a life after this ,Gees ,what an idiot.

JuicyJesus

I think OP thinks he's uncovered a new major bank scandal, when in actual fact he just had the misfortune to use an ATM which had a dog-eared note in it and has blown it out of all proportion.