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Number on zero hour contracts doubles in a year
Comments
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Graham_Devon wrote: »The best thing about this country was that we protected people.
I'm not sure that the UK has ever been known specifically for that; although we have been a good 'port in a storm' for refugees etc in many conflicts, if that's what you mean?
I think like many things there aren't two simple groups one of which cares for others and one that doesn't. Yes there are people who have no compassion or understanding for those less fortunate than themselves; as there are some who hand out money without considering whether it causes more harm than good or could help others more.
My own view is that the country should support people in achieving the best they can, not cover for people who don't want to. Even someone who isn't 'that' smart can justify a reasonable wage if they are genuinely hard working, polite and diligent. Someone who has been unemployed for 2 years should be provided with work they are capable of doing: street cleaning, picking vegetables instead of benefits (or training to help them get a better job). Refuse the work and you should be put on a subsistence level of benefits.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
I'd question that - the retail sector alone employs around 2.5million people in the UK (granted that includes "head office" functions, not just shop floor jobs) - Zero Hours contracts account for 200,000 people across the entire UK workforce. On that basis, I fail to see how "nearly all" staff are on these contracts.
Sorry, I meant that in some companies nearly all the staff are on Zero or very low hours contracts. Home care is particularly bad.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »We appear to be quickly finding ourselves talking of throwing crumbs to those "lesser than" us.
Not having qualifications doesn't simply mean they haven't tried. There could be hundreds of reasons. Mental capacity isn't the same for everyone, neither is upbringing and access to services. The best thing about this country was that we protected people.
Not having qualifications in the majority of cases is a clear indication that someone hasn't tried. Kids are coached for 10 years with the sole aim of delivering 5 decent GCSE's, the exams are designed to be passed and, if you look at GCSE maths for example, the papers are identical year after year.
Sure some kids don't have the mental capacity - not 41% of them though.
Throwing crumbs and protecting people are different ways of saying the same thing. If you find yourself without choices you're effectively at the mercy of other people's choices instead.
The debate is really how big the 'crumbs' should be and who provides them.0 -
Over thas last few years the employment laws have changed significantly so the 'temporary' staff have almost the same employment rights as permanent staff.
In parallel with this has been a rise in zero hour contracts.
One wonders if there is any correlation and maybe an intended side effect.0 -
Zero hours are a cop out for poor employers and weak business models.
Lost of people have jobs with no set fixed hours but work by flexible arrangement to accommodate known peaks and troughs in demand. I know a few who pick up slack by mutual agreement. They don't have to participate in a beauty parade making themselves available to give up alternatives options in the hope of being picked.
This is particularly true of catering, hospitality, seasonal work.
The courier example is interesting as I thought many couriers were effectively self employed anyway only getting paid for the drops they make.
There is a big difference between having flexible, adaptable staff and zero hours.
It is a disgrace for large multinationals to adopt the practices. I find it hard to believe that the likes of ASDA can't predict with a reasonable amount of accuracy staffing requirements in advance and with the numbers they employ there must be the capacity to mix an match roles, with some overtime if necessary, to service the store."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Not having qualifications in the majority of cases is a clear indication that someone hasn't tried. Kids are coached for 10 years with the sole aim of delivering 5 decent GCSE's, the exams are designed to be passed and, if you look at GCSE maths for example, the papers are identical year after year.
Sure some kids don't have the mental capacity - not 41% of them though.
Throwing crumbs and protecting people are different ways of saying the same thing. If you find yourself without choices you're effectively at the mercy of other people's choices instead.
The debate is really how big the 'crumbs' should be and who provides them.
Whether people help themselves or not they don't disappear in the society we have they will still be supported, to some degree, effectively subsidising employers. As well as the size of crumbs it also depends who is tossing them as you point out.
Arguably it layers up DWP administration costs to if individuals are bouncing in and out of welfare."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Zero hours are a cop out for poor employers and weak business models.
Lost of people have jobs with no set fixed hours but work by flexible arrangement to accommodate known peaks and troughs in demand. I know a few who pick up slack by mutual agreement. They don't have to participate in a beauty parade making themselves available to give up alternatives options in the hope of being picked.
This is particularly true of catering, hospitality, seasonal work.
The courier example is interesting as I thought many couriers were effectively self employed anyway only getting paid for the drops they make.
There is a big difference between having flexible, adaptable staff and zero hours.
It is a disgrace for large multinationals to adopt the practices. I find it hard to believe that the likes of ASDA can't predict with a reasonable amount of accuracy staffing requirements in advance and with the numbers they employ there must be the capacity to mix an match roles, with some overtime if necessary, to service the store.
Will the higher prices and worse service make you more likely to shop there because the staff are on a contract you approve of? If not you can see why they do it.0 -
Over thas last few years the employment laws have changed significantly so the 'temporary' staff have almost the same employment rights as permanent staff.
In parallel with this has been a rise in zero hour contracts.
One wonders if there is any correlation and maybe an intended side effect.
You are probbaly right about correlation but the effect is more likely to have been an unintended consequence."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I can see the benefit to "some" staff being on zero hours contracts - this will cover sickness, annual leave, staff shortages etc. And there is a benefit to the staff to, in that they don't have to take the work (though of course they will balance this with the consideration of whether they will be offered future work by saying no to work opportunities). But then how is this implemented? How do managers decide which of the workers they will call in? Do they call in their mates? Do they avoid calling in groups they dislike? (eg ethnic groups, women, the disabled)? How is this monitored?
My concern is this becoming the norm.
Also, as highlighted earlier in the thread, a person on a zero hours contract is not an employee. Therefore, no entitlement to redundancy pay, no employment rights, no rights of redress via an employment tribunal. The erosion of such rights is dangerous & open to exploitation.It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0 -
Over thas last few years the employment laws have changed significantly so the 'temporary' staff have almost the same employment rights as permanent staff.
In parallel with this has been a rise in zero hour contracts.
One wonders if there is any correlation and maybe an intended side effect.
Not completely. One of the first acts of the coalition was to extend the time limit for ET claims back to 2 years, introduce a fee, restrict potential claims, then remove legal aid on employment cases.grizzly1911 wrote: »You are probbaly right about correlation but the effect is more likely to have been an unintended consequence.
[cynic mode on] you reckon? [cynic mode off]It's getting harder & harder to keep the government in the manner to which they have become accustomed.0
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