Sterling to get abused even more?

dryhat

Sold 15 of my bitcoins yesterday for £97.50 each

A nice profit of £922 and I still have 5 "free" bitcoins currently worth about £500 which I will keep hold of.

A nice result for a few hours work. Better returns than property speculation and much less hassle.

But trading during a bubble (particularly currency) is a risky game, so that will do me for now.

But I find the whole bitcoin thing fascinating and I will be keeping an eye on developemnts.

grizzly1911

Generali wrote: »

You can't fight demographics with monetary or fiscal policy as my old mum used to say.

Even then the UK has a pretty funky looking aging population curve ahead of it.

My mum used to say eat up your greens and then you can go and have fun.:p.

You mean endless open door immigration isn't going to work?

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well today it looks like Japan have just left us in the dust!

Given that an aging population of some 125 million, living in apartments where no more consumer goods can be squeezed in, is struggling to grow. Is hardly a surprise.

May be an indication of what the UK has in store in the years to come. As we are following the same path as Japan. With an insurmountable debt burden.

michaels

grizzly1911 wrote: »

You mean endless open door immigration isn't going to work?

Instructions

1) Take can and place on street
2) Kick as far ahead as possible
3) Walk down street
4) When you catch up with can go back and repeat step 2 onwards

(This assumes that a finite country can support infinite compound growth but then paraphrasing Keynes before the long term we will all be dead)

IzzyFreedman

Even modern digital currencies like Bitcoin may well meet all the requirements of currency arguably except durable but can not be a long term store of value because it is dependant on many things like electricity and internet not being hacked or messed with. Bitcoins can not have any intrinsic value in themselves because they do not exist, they are virtual currencies. They can not be money in and of themselves like gold and silver coins because Bitcoins are digital not backed by anything just like fiat currencies.

IzzyFreedman

dryhat wrote: »

Sold 15 of my bitcoins yesterday for £97.50 each

A nice profit of £922 and I still have 5 "free" bitcoins currently worth about £500 which I will keep hold of.

A nice result for a few hours work. Better returns than property speculation and much less hassle.

But trading during a bubble (particularly currency) is a risky game, so that will do me for now.

But I find the whole bitcoin thing fascinating and I will be keeping an eye on developemnts.

I also find the whole bitcoin thing fascinating and I will also be keeping an eye on developemnts.


What I find is more people asking good questions like, so is it a proper currency? And what is a proper currency? Is bitcoin any more proper or safer than a government backed currency? If they can not expand the supply of bitcoin then it makes all other currencies the US$ and every fiat unit of account look like monopoly money?

I think the big question should be who really started Bitcoin? And who is responsible for regulating it? Not many people believe it was that Japanese guy as the story goes. I honestly do not know the answer to these questions but I have very clear views on all unbacked currencies like bitcoin the US$ and all of them, THEY ARE ALL IN A BUBBLE.

This video sums it all up


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlJ6oh50hiI

All unbacked currencies are just like the South sea bubble, and at least the Tulip bubble was backed by something, even if it was something that was eventually in large supply. Unlike bullion which is in scarce supply compared to the Earth's population.

To me all these unbacked currencies like bitcoin or fiat currencies are just more units that are going to be chasing gold and silver bullion in the future.

dryhat

Bitcoin does look like it's in a bubble. Which is why I sold some of mine.

The important thing though, as with all currencies, is whether people value them enough to accept them as payment for goods and services.

Of course they are no substitute for real world assets but as a means of exchange, bitcoin seems to fit the bill. With the added bonus of no involvment of either government or banks and therefore also free of transaction fees.

As far as governments shutting the system down and making online wallets inaccessable and worthless - I trust the techies on this one when they say that it cannot be done in practice and other means of trading will quickly develop to get around any restrictions.

The powers-that-be are afraid of bitcoin. And anything they are afraid of is, by definition, good for the rest of us.


Here's a nice video showing bitcoin in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YZ-pqo0cLcE

IzzyFreedman

The difference between currency and money is a store of value over long periods of time.

Currency must be a medium of exchange so we have to be able to buy and sell things with it. It has to be a unit of account, so one gram or unit is equal to one gram. It has to be portable so not to large or heavy. It has to be divisible which means you can make change. Durable which means it has to has to last and not dissolve in water or evaporate or degrade in extreme temperatures. And then something called fungible. Fungible means that each unit is interchangeable so the unit in your pocket buys the same as the unit in my pocket.

Money has to be all these things plus it has to be a store of value over long periods of time. So if you only remember one thing today remember that lots of things have been currency but only two things have ever been money. Nothing else meets ALL of these requirements and is a long term store of value only gold and silver are money in and of themselves. There are many things that are a long term store of value (like land for instance) but they do not meet the other requirements land is not portable. Diamonds are a good long term store of value and very portable but not fungible because no two grams or units of diamonds are worth exactly the same. Salt and tobacco as we have said meet most of the requirements of currency but are not durable even if they arguably do hold their value over long periods of time like money does, gold and silver. Even modern digital currencies like Bitcoin may well meet all the requirements of currency arguably except durable but can not be a long term store of value because it is dependant on many things like electricity and internet not being hacked or messed with. Bitcoins can not have any intrinsic value in themselves because they do not exist, they are virtual currencies. They can not be money in and of themselves like gold and silver coins because Bitcoins are digital not backed by anything just like fiat currencies.

It is worth repeating, Many things have been used as currency but nothing has met all these requirements and been a lasting store of value over long periods of time, only gold and silver are money. The key point to remember is - Only gold and silver are money, everything else that has been used as a medium of exchange is just currency.

Currency

medium of exchange
unit of account
portable
divisible
durable
fungible

Money

medium of exchange
unit of account
portable
divisible
durable
fungible
STORE OF VALUE

IzzyFreedman

dryhat wrote: »

Bitcoin does look like it's in a bubble. Which is why I sold some of mine.

The important thing though, as with all currencies, is whether people value them enough to accept them as payment for goods and services.

Of course they are no substitute for real world assets but as a means of exchange, bitcoin seems to fit the bill. With the added bonus of no involvment of either government or banks and therefore also free of transaction fees.

As far as governments shutting the system down and making online wallets inaccessable and worthless - I trust the techies on this one when they say that it cannot be done in practice and other means of trading will quickly develop to get around any restrictions.

The powers-that-be are afraid of bitcoin. And anything they are afraid of is, by definition, good for the rest of us.


Here's a nice video showing bitcoin in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YZ-pqo0cLcE

Two pretty girls always helps

Dryhat could you answer some questions about bitcoins for me?

So if only what is it 21 million bitcoins can ever exist, and half of them have already been mined. The computers mining the other half are providing all the power and computing needed to run all the bitcoin transactions going on in the world.

My question is, when the other half of the 21 million bitcoins have been mined who will provide all the power and computing needed to run the transactions then?

dryhat

IzzyFreedman wrote: »

Two pretty girls always helps

Dryhat could you answer some questions about bitcoins for me?

So if only what is it 21 million bitcoins can ever exist, and half of them have already been mined. The computers mining the other half are providing all the power and computing needed to run all the bitcoin transactions going on in the world.

My question is, when the other half of the 21 million bitcoins have been mined who will provide all the power and computing needed to run the transactions then?

Yeah, the girls are cute.

As for your question, I don't think the computers doing the mining are providing the power and computing to run the transactions so the problem will not arise.
Something to do with it being a distributed ledger or whatever.

I must admit, though, I don't really know. (I'm not a techie).

I have spent the best part of 3 months researching and educating myself about bitcoin and I still haven't got a bl00dy clue how it works.

I just learnt enough to be able to buy and sell and have a speculative punt, but as far as the maths and encryption and other technical aspects are concerned I just can't quite understand it.

If you look around the net you should find answers to any questions you have.