Custom & Practice: Have others picked up your train tickets at the station before?

Tanya_G

Hi all, I wanted to find out whether others have had a similar experience before deciding whether to take additional action on a matter.

The context is as follows:
Years back (7-8, i.e no mobile apps!) when my then fiance was travelling to meet me across UK, I had to buy him a train ticket which would not have gotten to him on time by post (and he wouldn't have been able to pay on the train/station as had no money that week). The stuff at the station advised me to book online, then forward him the confirmation mail with ticket reference number and a note 'to whom it may concern' that I allow this person to collect my ticket. This worked, he arrived early, queued with others at the station, presented the printout and got the ticket.

I have then used this method on the rare occaisions that I needed to buy others a ticket. I'm a business traveller, sometimes having to take 4-5 trains per week ( thankfully, none at others) and I know my colleagues have used this to book and pick up tickets for each other.

Question 1: Have you ever used this method to buy or collect train tickets? Or simply give your ticket pin number at the station with another id as proof of identity, if you didn't have the original card you booked your ticket with?

The situation:
Last November I wanted to treat my friend to a trip to my town on his birthday. There was plenty of time to pick the train tickets myself and send them to him by post, but I thought it will be easier for him to pick up the ticket at the station with my print out and we've done it before.

The staff at the station said that they cannot release the ticket and gave him a number to call the booking line to change the type of ticket, so it can be released. I spoke to a service advisor who told me that this cannot be done, that this is for my own safety(!) - I have offered to verify any details on the card that I booked with or my identity details.

My partner had to pay £129.00 for a single journey that day (even though all staff could see that a ticket has been booked for that journey and not collected from a machine which cost £59)

Question 2: Have you ever been caught out in a similar situation?

The complaint:
I have complained about the fact that I have not been to release a ticket even though I was available to verify all the details on the ticket/booking/card/my identity over the phone.

Their response was based on the system being for my own protection based on the following reasons in bold font and my response to that:

• check the card holder is collecting the ticket . There is absolutely no authentication of the cardholder when collecting the ticket - I am not required to put a pin for my card when I collect tickets. The authentication happens when I book tickets online. I can collect tickets with a stolen card that I used to booked them online with, for example.
• confirm that we are debiting the correct card with the cost of the ticket. This is also false because the card is charged when I make the payment online. I have checked my credit card statements and the charge will be made whether I collect my tickets or not.

I suspect that they must have had a change of technology and it no longer allows them to release tickets without the card.

When I called Which Legal team they advised that under Custom and Practice case law they should consider a refund if they used a practice that wasn't mentioned in the T&Cs in the past and then stopped 'without notice'.

Question 3: Has anyone used Custom and Practice before when dealing with consumer rights?

Jeff_Bridges_hair

In the past all you needed was your reference number for a lot of TOCs to pick up the ticket from the TVM. What had resulted was that there were lots of people who had either their card details stolen or even their emails hacked and the reference number used to pick up the tickets.

Also a good trick people worked out is that they could pay for one ticket, print it then give it to their mate and then say that they had it stolen from their emails or such like - 2 tickets for the price of 1.

They changed this due to the high levels of apparant fraud that was occuring to all TOCs so that you now need the card that was used when purchasing the tickets to pick them up.

Depending on who sold you the tickets, there are cases when certain issuers will release the ticket with any card but there must be a good reason.

This is why a lot are going down the [EMAIL="print@home"]print@home[/EMAIL] ticket route for tickets bought online also as this cuts down on the problems of TODs. (Tickets on departures). But these will also need the holder to have ID proving it is them too.


I have no idea aboutCustom and Practice case law so I really cant help you with that.

Who did you purchase your ticket from?

securityguy

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

This is why a lot are going down the [EMAIL="print@home"]print@home[/EMAIL] ticket route for tickets bought online also as this cuts down on the problems of TODs. (Tickets on departures). But these will also need the holder to have ID proving it is them too.

But it doesn't have to be the card you bought the ticket with. You can specify the piece of ID that is associated with the p@h ticket, and it can be a driving license, credit card, passport or other item. All they want is a means to prevent arbitrage in AP tickets (ie, you buy a stack of them on the day they're released and then sell them later). An example is the Gatwick Express terms and conditions:

The form of identity that you specified to carry with you during the purchase of the ticket will be required as identification during the journey. If you are unable to supply this identification, your ticket will not be valid and a new ticket must be purchased.

System

I was on the eggheads and as part of the experience they paid for my travel and booked my train tickets. All I needed to do was go to a machine in the station, enter my reference number and then put any card (not the payment card) into the machine.

This confirmed my identity.

I would suggest next time you do the same. Book the ticket online in your fianc!e name and he can collect from a machine.

p00hsticks

goater78 wrote: »

I was on the eggheads and as part of the experience they paid for my travel and booked my train tickets. All I needed to do was go to a machine in the station, enter my reference number and then put any card (not the payment card) into the machine.

This confirmed my identity.

Perhaps I'm being thick but I don;t follow this logic - how does inserting some random card into the machine 'confirm your identity' ?

paulineb_2

Ive always been asked when collecting tickets from a manned station to put the card I paid with into the machine, dont need to give the pin, it gives the tickets. I agree, used to be reference number but for the last 4 or 5 years when Ive travelled Ive always been asked for the card I made the booking with and at some particularly sticky stations, card plus reference number.

Putting the card into the machine will bring up all bookings associated with that card.

paulineb_2

Ah, I see, some people pick up the tickets with a different card than they paid with, Ive always been asked for the card I made the booking with.

silvercar

For future occasions:

Either buy vouchers (I use red spotted hanky). The ticket can then be collected with the code and any card.

Or simply transfer the cost of the ticket using online banking and let the rail user buy their own.

Tanya_G

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

In the past all you needed was your reference number for a lot of TOCs to pick up the ticket from the TVM. What had resulted was that there were lots of people who had either their card details stolen or even their emails hacked and the reference number used to pick up the tickets.

Also a good trick people worked out is that they could pay for one ticket, print it then give it to their mate and then say that they had it stolen from their emails or such like - 2 tickets for the price of 1.

They changed this due to the high levels of apparant fraud that was occuring to all TOCs so that you now need the card that was used when purchasing the tickets to pick them up.

Depending on who sold you the tickets, there are cases when certain issuers will release the ticket with any card but there must be a good reason.

This is why a lot are going down the print@home ticket route for tickets bought online also as this cuts down on the problems of TODs. (Tickets on departures). But these will also need the holder to have ID proving it is them too.


I have no idea aboutCustom and Practice case law so I really cant help you with that.

Who did you purchase your ticket from?

Very useful background, thanks! The ticket was from EasCoast

Tanya_G

securityguy wrote: »

But it doesn't have to be the card you bought the ticket with. You can specify the piece of ID that is associated with the p@h ticket, and it can be a driving license, credit card, passport or other item. All they want is a means to prevent arbitrage in AP tickets (ie, you buy a stack of them on the day they're released and then sell them later). An example is the Gatwick Express terms and conditions:

Yes, I've had that in the past that it could be any card. But this is another things that got changed. The reponse from East Coast was that it does have to be Card and the specific card that you booked it with otherwise they cannot release. For example, if you booked with a card 1.5 months ago and it exprired by the time you were picking the tickets up - you wouldn't be able to do so

Tanya_G

goater78 wrote: »

I was on the eggheads and as part of the experience they paid for my travel and booked my train tickets. All I needed to do was go to a machine in the station, enter my reference number and then put any card (not the payment card) into the machine.

This confirmed my identity.

I would suggest next time you do the same. Book the ticket online in your fianc!e name and he can collect from a machine.

According to East Coast this is no longer possible, at least with their tickets, so you have to be careful next time. For East cost it has to be the card you paid with now...