Tenants in common

shimmasok

Wow Didn't realise I'd kick of such a heated discussion, its great! I thank the commentator for his comments but as i'm sure they can appreciate the ability to give a fully detailed and individual break down of the benefits of a trust situtation to an individual i have never met is simply not going to happen. i stand by my comments not all trusts are evil or complicated or they simply would not be used every day! If we were to believe you then everyone in the country would simply bow down and pay Mr Brown 40% of everything they own when they die becuase it might be a little tricky trying to avoid it! If you spend the money in the first place in an experience financial and legal advisor then trusts will save you money. for an estate with an IHt liability of £50k-60k then 2 grand in advice fees to set up a good trust is nothing!

As for all of the comments about the sanctity or marraige and trusting your children im not going to get involved. i agree that money can do funny things to people but i believe if your children are raised right then there should never be a doubt as to whether they'd turn on you and kick you out of your home to get at some inheritance quicker, after all the trust was set up to save their tax bill!

Errata

shimmasok wrote: »

As for all of the comments about the sanctity or marraige and trusting your children im not going to get involved. i agree that money can do funny things to people but i believe if your children are raised right then there should never be a doubt as to whether they'd turn on you and kick you out of your home to get at some inheritance quicker, after all the trust was set up to save their tax bill!

I've always found that the best way to operate when it comes to wordly goods and cash under the mattress is to ensure everything is laid out in a legally binding way. Doing this ensures that trust is not an issue as no-one has to trust anyone else to do the right thing. Far more relaxing for all concerned, and it forces those who don't want to be legally bound to say so and say why.

Readers with 20/20 foresight can ignore my post.

margaretclare

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Margaret, we are only in our late 50s and will probably wish to live in our house again at some point - that is one reason why we are not signing it over to him now. When we return from Spain, which we will do eventually, the sale of that house will not realise enough capital to buy another house in the UK, and we only have a small income so could not afford to rent - we would have nowhere to live if we gave it to him now as apparently you can't give something as a gift but continue to benefit from it.

I think the favourite plan at the moment is if it happens that one of us goes into care, or dies, the other one will then make the house tenants in common with our son. The jury's still out on that though.

Sorry about that, 7DW. Obviously I didn't know the full facts of the case. At your age it is going to be a looooong time before you consider either or both of you going into care (more likely in the 80+ group apparently). 30-40 years in your case, almost impossible to forecast what the state of things will be in England by then.

Renting on a small income - there is a thing called Housing Benefit which people on low incomes can use to pay their rent. And my granddaughter pays rent on her council flat, she's not in a well-paid job so she claims Working Tax Credit.

No, of course you can't give something and continue to benefit from it - this is a nonsensical idea anyway, although in regard to house property you often hear it suggested!

Margaret

margaretclare

Errata wrote: »

I've always found that the best way to operate when it comes to worldly goods and cash under the mattress is to ensure everything is laid out in a legally binding way. Doing this ensures that trust is not an issue as no-one has to trust anyone else to do the right thing. Far more relaxing for all concerned, and it forces those who don't want to be legally bound to say so and say why.

Readers with 20/20 foresight can ignore my post.

I agree with you.

Margaret

seven-day-weekend

margaretclare wrote: »

Sorry about that, 7DW. Obviously I didn't know the full facts of the case. At your age it is going to be a looooong time before you consider either or both of you going into care (more likely in the 80+ group apparently). 30-40 years in your case, almost impossible to forecast what the state of things will be in England by then.

Renting on a small income - there is a thing called Housing Benefit which people on low incomes can use to pay their rent. And my granddaughter pays rent on her council flat, she's not in a well-paid job so she claims Working Tax Credit.
No, of course you can't give something and continue to benefit from it - this is a nonsensical idea anyway, although in regard to house property you often hear it suggested!

Margaret

Margaret, this is not an option as we would have too much capital if we sold our Spanish house - but not enough to buy another decent property in the UK. And we won't be working, so tax credits are not an option either.

We will have to come back to live in the family home and our son will either have to live with us, or rent a place of his own. If he could get a Council flat that would be ideal. But single people with no children will almost certainly never get a council place in our area.

So we'd like him to have the house eventually as it is his home and his right.

margaretclare

Sorry, 7DWE, in that case I've run out of options. And I know what you mean about the difficulty of getting a council flat. My GD was homeless and sleeping on her uncle's sofa and even then it was very very difficult for her to get the council flat. She was in competition with what she calls 'fence-jumpers and war-dodgers' (see Margaret Hodge's comments yesterday about 'local people should come first' and the storm that has aroused!) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=456569&in_page_id=1787 and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456472&in_page_id=1770

By the time you come back to England, (the dis-united kingdom) we may well have sunk below the waves from weight of people coming in, or it will be 'standing room only'!

Margaret

margaretclare

A further suggestion to 7DWE - had you considered selling your house in England to your son at a reduced price i.e. one that he could afford?

We did this when we moved from the Pennine cottage in 1990.

We made a lot of mistakes in doing that - the biggest mistake was in too much 'trust' i.e. a gentleman's agreement. As Errata suggests, it would have been better if we'd had the whole thing down in black-and-white.

As for all of the comments about the sanctity of marriage and trusting your children I'm not going to get involved. I agree that money can do funny things to people but i believe if your children are raised right then there should never be a doubt as to whether they'd turn on you

I would have said the same if I hadn't experienced the events that occurred in our family in the autumn of 1990, just after we moved to Essex from the Pennines. 'Too much trust' - yes. Things happened between two sisters that I could never have believed beforehand.

However, with you, 7DWE, you only have one son, and forgive the plain speaking, but you want him to have the house in England eventually because it's his home and his right. But you also say you'll need it to live in when you come back from Spain and in that case he'll either have to live with you or rent somewhere of his own (which may be difficult). To get a council flat you may have to make him homeless, but even that may be difficult as the councils are getting wise to this and may see it as a 'ploy'. When I was still going to CAB we were frequently asked 'If we kick son/daughter out the council will have to give him/her a place, won't they?' The answer is usually 'no'.

Buying somewhere in England can be cheaper if you opt for a 'park home' because in that case you're not buying the land, you pay ground rent instead.

Margaret

oap

Housing Associations will help with buying property, either to rent, to go halves, or whatever. oap

seven-day-weekend

At the moment, we're hoping the IKEA flats at £60k are going to come to our area! From what I've heard, they are going to be earmarked for first-time buyers, so we can help our son to buy one (We would not be eligible otherwise we would have one of the houses for ourselves).

Don't want a Park Home as the Service Charges are too high and we don't really want to live among 'old people' (you'll know the type of people I mean).

oap

Oh that sounds a very good idea. I mentioned Housing Associations because a neighbour of ours who is 61 has just divorced her husband after many years marriage, and the house has been split, this was around £80000 each, and she could not manage to buy anything for that, she applied to a Housing Association and apparently had enough points for them to help her and at present she is renting a one bedroom retirement bungalow on a small complex. Her ex has moved in with his mistress!!

No mention so far from them that she has to buy any part of it, and they know her circumstances. You are right about park homes, the yearly rentals are astronomical, just like retirement apartments, we enquired about those, and as well as costing nearly as much as a small bungalow, you had to fork out just over a thousand pounds a year as well for mantenance costs.

Hope all goes well for you in the end, I am sure it will.

Best wishes, oap