Chimney breast removed in kitchen but still remains in room above

thelem

Tango5 wrote: »

So, would it be better to ask vendor to put problem right before exchange or to negotiate on price or to get a structural engineer to take a look?

If you do the work you'll know it's been done correctly, rather than bodged by the cheapest quote.
On the other hand you'll also be taking the risk of something going wrong during the building work and causing further expense (see post above about the downstairs ceiling falling through).

Tango5

I've referred it to my solicitor who has said that they will raise it in the first instance. Certainly don't like the thought of anything coming through the ceiling!

jcaow

We've just moved into a house with exactly this (ie no chimney breast in kitchen but one above in back bedroom and chimney above) and we took the view that its been standing all this time (we don't think it was done in the last 10 years) we'd be very unlucky if it falls down now! Our lender insisted on indemnity insurance (for this and a couple of other issues) and we will get the roof done along with the chimney in the next 2-3 years so we've taken our chances. Good luck with whatever you decide.

chappers

jcaow wrote: »

We've just moved into a house with exactly this (ie no chimney breast in kitchen but one above in back bedroom and chimney above) and we took the view that its been standing all this time (we don't think it was done in the last 10 years) we'd be very unlucky if it falls down now! Our lender insisted on indemnity insurance (for this and a couple of other issues) and we will get the roof done along with the chimney in the next 2-3 years so we've taken our chances. Good luck with whatever you decide.

As a builder this is one of the times I'm not happy with the "it's been ok for years" so is unlikely to fail attitude.
It can fail at any point if un suuported and when a chimney goes like that it can be catastrophic and if your living in a semi or terrace could pull the whole wall down between your two houses or the side off of your house.
in some circumstances the Chimney can be part of the structural integrity of the house.
If it has been left in from the 1st floor up it should be a simple case of checking to see if it has been supported.

Tancred

Tango5 wrote: »

The survey on the house I am in the process of buying highlighted that they chimney breast had been removed in the kitchen, on the ground floor, but remained in the room above. It suggested that I find out if there were buildings regs for this, to show that the chimney above was supported properly.

I have asked the estate agents to ask the vendor for the building regs but the surveyor said it'd be unlikely that they had them (and the current owner has only lived there a few years).

Presuming there are no building regs, how should I proceed? And what is the likelihood of this missing chimney breast causing a problem in the future?

Have you observed the kitchen ceiling? Is there any sign at all of anything untoward? If the work was done several years ago and there is no sign of structural issues then the strong likelihood is that it was all done properly. To be 100% sure you would need to get a structural engineer to check it, but this would cost £500 and chances are that this would just confirm the obvious. Normally there are clear signs when a botch job was done - a good builder should be able to tell you.

Tancred

yoyoegg wrote: »

Reduce your offer price by the ££ amount needed to install an RSJ/

Nonsense. The value of the house does not depend on this issue. At the end of the day it's the buyer's responsibility to verify anything that concerns them, so if the buyer wants to be totally certain of a support for the chimney he/she would need to get the structural expert to check the house. Another question: what if the neighbour's house has had the same job done? You wouldn't know, would you? You cannot always be 100% certain of everything.

Tancred

Tango5 wrote: »

So, would it be better to ask vendor to put problem right before exchange or to negotiate on price or to get a structural engineer to take a look?

No - it's your responsibility to check this issue, not the vendor's. The vendor is selling the house 'as is'. If you are uncomfortable then walk away, but you seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill. If there is no support you can get a builder to put one in - it's not a big job. The key thing is do you like the house?

Tango5

Tancred wrote: »

No - it's your responsibility to check this issue, not the vendor's. The vendor is selling the house 'as is'. If you are uncomfortable then walk away, but you seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill. If there is no support you can get a builder to put one in - it's not a big job. The key thing is do you like the house?

Yes, I like that house very much...it's pretty much perfect and we've been looking for a long time. I really don't want to walk away which is why I want to try and establish whether or not the is a problem, and if so how expensive it might be to fix.

propertyman

Mouintain out of a molehill.... mmm and the unsupported chimney which runs upstairs into the roof and out of it collapses, taking the party wall and roof and structure too.

it ,may be entirely adequately supported however the only means of establishing that is to open up and see.

It is noones responsibility it is for the two to agree and negotiate.

chappers

If it has been taken out up to the ceiling then it should be a simple job of lifting a couple of floorboards and having a look.
With regards to costs it all depends where available support is, and whether the back wall of the chimney is suitable to hold the weight, if the chimney left in goes all the way up the 1st floor and up through the loft and out then you will probably need an rsj supporting across to the load bearing walls.
I would make sure it is done and safe, but if it wasn't it wouldn't be a deal breaker, but if you can get the vendor to do it or share some of the cost then all the better.