T-Mobile - disputed roaming phone calls

shaun_from_Africa

mpeel68 wrote: »

Because the phone said "Call Failed" and I didn't hear my voicemails.

As has already been pointed out to you, the reason that you were unable to get on to the voicemail system was because you failed to notify T-Mobile that you wanted international access for this.

The phone call from Mexico would have given you a connection to the T-Mobile system, but you would not have been able to get into the system due to your oversight.
Because of this, you still made a chargeable call using the Mexican phone service.

I have gone to the trouble of citing evidence of other consumer advocates who believe this is unreasonable, so it is pretty small minded of you to continue to behave as if it is obvious and self-evident that I am liable for these charges.

If you failed to follow the correct procedure for using your phone whilst overseas, then you are probably liable for the charges as it was in all likelyhood, your error that was the cause.
What you linked to was an American website which was simply giving personal opinions and any consumer advice given by USA organisations is worthless here.

Techhead_2

mpeel68 wrote: »

Because the phone said "Call Failed" and I didn't hear my voicemails.

Definition: con•nect (v)
Join together so as to provide access and communication.

So unless we're changing the definition of "connect" here, I would point out I wasn't provided with "access and communication".

But I'm sure you are delighted to pay for phone calls that didn't go through, as well as (I presume) petrol that wasn't dispensed (but their machine dispensed to the street, so it's not fair they should have to suffer the loss, is it...) and purchases that weren't shipped to you (but they were shipped to someone else, so it's not fair they should have to suffer the loss...) and taxi drivers who take you to the wrong place (but they've spent their petrol so why should they have to suffer the loss...) since it's the same analogy.

I am really not sure if you are a moron, a troll or a shill for T-Mobile but your patronising reply and sign-off leads me to wonder why you bother to contribute to these forums. I have gone to the trouble of citing evidence of other consumer advocates who believe this is unreasonable, so it is pretty small minded of you to continue to behave as if it is obvious and self-evident that I am liable for these charges.

And before you ask, I have looked through the T-M terms and conditions which make no mention of charges for failed calls.

As for how I plan to resolve this, it's quite simple: when my contract comes round for renewal (in a couple of months), I intend to explain to them why I am not renewing my line, and will be moving my other two lines as they expire (all totalling about £145/mo). I'm sure you will be keen to tell me that other mobile phone companies will treat me the same, but I happen to know that is not the case from my dealings with O2 on my other line who are always making goodwill gestures like this and charge about the same.

The post at which you lost any sympathy anyone may have had with you.

You aren't recognising that when you make a roaming call there are several stages involved, each of which are chargeable. When you dial, the Mexican network connects you to your home network. At this stage it had no way of verifying whether the destination is valid. You will be charged for this. Once you are connected to your home network then the destination can be validated and you may get a Call Failed. (We are not used to paying for them nowadays, but it used to be the case that cross network misdialled calls were charged in the UK)

Instead of all your outrage and emotion, if you feel the error was not yours then you need to make a convincing case to T-Mobile and use their complaints procedure.

timbstoke

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

As has already been pointed out to you, the reason that you were unable to get on to the voicemail system was because you failed to notify T-Mobile that you wanted international access for this.

...

If you failed to follow the correct procedure for using your phone whilst overseas, then you are probably liable for the charges as it was in all likelyhood, your error that was the cause.
What you linked to was an American website which was simply giving personal opinions and any consumer advice given by USA organisations is worthless here.

Your logic seems to be broken.

On the one hand, you're saying that in order to be able to use your phone abroad, you need to tell T-Mobile so that the service can be enabled. A few sentences later, you're saying that because the service wasn't enabled, it was chargable.

If the service wasn't enabled, then OP shouldn't be charged for a service which is not available on their phone. If it was enabled, it should have worked.

As it stands, what we have is a simple case of a service not provided. If T-Mobile have to pay the Mexican operator for the failed connection, that's unfortunate for them, and they should probably bring that up when they next discuss the roaming agreement with them. But that's not OP's problem. They attempted to make a call. That call was not allowed. Therefore that attempt was not chargable.

OP, if you've already paid, send a recorded delivery letter demanding a refund within 21 days or you will commence proceedings through the small claims court. If you haven't, you will need to decide whether to pay for the sake of retaining your connection before doing the above, or refuse to pay and risk disconnection.

There is no way a reasonable person would expect a failed call to be chargeable, and I wouldn't expect T-Mo to even consider letting it get as far as that.

unholyangel

Unless its changed, it used to be that when abroad, you had to dial your voicemail as a UK number since pressing any shortcut key (901 or 910 i think my shortcut is - I rarely use it) may mean something else on the foreign network. Trying to call that from abroad will result in call failed.

However when abroad, you are usually charged you press the call button, because the second you do...the foreign network are providing you a service. Regardless whether a person answers at the other end or not.

Its always a good idea to inform your network operator if you're planning to take your phone abroad, if only to check what the call charges will be. If its expensive......you can get sim cards specifically for use abroad.

I think you'd struggle to hold T-Mobile liable for it. It was completely outwith their control (and under the OP's control) and they were not even made aware of it. Wouldnt be hard for T-Mobile to argue that any call made after the first 2 or 3 is excessive and against the mitigation principle.

It may also be possible that the OP connected to a network different than the one T-Mobile are partnered with.....which is a bad idea as generally the partnered companies are much cheaper. If you tell them you're going abroad, they usually advise you on what network to connect to. Or at least, they used to.

If a complaint is put forth in writing, T-Mobile may waive or reduce the charges. But I'd be wary of taking this to court without consulting a solicitor as there seems to be far too many circumstances under the OP's control and not enough under T-Mobiles.

shaun_from_Africa

timbstoke wrote: »

Your logic seems to be broken.

On the one hand, you're saying that in order to be able to use your phone abroad, you need to tell T-Mobile so that the service can be enabled. A few sentences later, you're saying that because the service wasn't enabled, it was chargable.

That's not quite what I stated.
I said that to access international voicemail access from Mexico then the OP should have told T-Mobile about this before travelling. (This is clearly stated on the T-M website, and in the opening post, the OP states that the multiple calls were all for voicemail access.)

Because they failed to do this, their phone was locking onto the Mexican phone service and attempting to connect to the voicemail service but as this hadn't been activated, a connection wasn't possible.
However, even though they couldn't get to their voicemail, the Mexican phone provided tried to connect the call, and as such, it is a chargeable service.

timbstoke

I sincerely doubt that any court in the land would agree.

OlliesDad

timbstoke wrote: »

I sincerely doubt that any court in the land would agree.

I would agree with what was said.

It seems logical that to attempt to a UK number while in Mexico would have some cost attached to it.

As a metaphor its like paying to get on a bus to an event and arriving without a ticket. The bus company (Mexican phone company) have attempted to get you to the event but because you haven't bought a ticket (not registered for overseas use) you are not permitted in the venue (the call does not connect). Is it the bus company or the venue's fault?

I think a court would look to see if there was a cost incurred in attempting to connect to the answerphone (there is from the Mexicans).. who is to blame for the call failing?