NHS employer funding training

debrag

I am wondering if your NHS employer is funding your training i.e. nursing, are you guaranteed a job at the end of it?

ohreally

Many existing staff are on redeployment lists or are at risk of redundancy - this may leave students completing training with no immediate prospects of a relevant post.

Andy_L

What terms is it on?

Did they give you a secondment to train and are still employing you or are you just going through the normal student nurse bursary system?

debrag

They haven't given me anything but it would be secondment.

Whats the student nurse bursary system? or do you mean applying to uni as any other student and not being employed by a trust/a trust paying for your training etc.

tyler2027

The answer to your question is no - there is no guarantee of employment at the end of training. In todays climate, some newly qualifieds can pick and choose which area to work in because some hospitals are hiring and there's not enough graduates coming out of the local uni. Sadly, other NQs really struggle. Their local hospitals are not hiring or not hiring NQs. I am a staff nurse and lucky to be in an area with plenty of jobs. I work alongside Scottish and Irish nurses who had to relocate to get their first posting, months after qualifying.

Lets hope things improve for all nursing students in the future!

There are two types of secondment and you need to establish which one your trust is offering.

The older type of secondment. An employee becomes a full time (3years) student at the local university. Your paid a percentage of your wage. The only thing they guarantee is if you fail your course or leave they will find a job for you somewhere in the trust on the same job scale as the one you left ie band 2/3 but it doesn't have to be the same hours/same role. These contracts do not specify a qualified nursing job at the end, only that you have to work for them for at least 2 years or you will have to pay back a percentage of the training costs. If the trust has jobs it seems logical that the trust would employ you if you pass equally at interview with say a non seconded trained - the problems arise when there are no jobs.

The newer type of secondment (more than likely its this type). An employee continues to work in their role for 22.5 hrs pw. The other 15 hrs pw is spent gaining clinical experience in other areas and study. Your not regarded as a full time student. You get paid a percentage of your salary, the usual rate is 75-80%. Don't know what student financial help is available though (there was a little bit of help when the course was diploma, but now theres only degree training)

Your academic work is through the Open University not the local uni. There is no guarantee of a job at the end, but no obligations to pay back any training costs and your free to apply where ever you want for work. Note that as your nursing degree is studied for at a part time rate, the minimum length of time to qualify is 4 years and the maximum 7. This is due to the Nursing and Midwifery Councils criteria that all pre registration students have to complete 2300 hours of academic study and 2300 hours of clinical practice. As you can work out you only have 15 available student hours per week (not including hols) so you would have to use all that up doing clinical placement and then do studying on top to do it all in four years!!

Also, be aware that with secondment you have to fulfil criteria in order to apply for it within your trust. These are essential criteria and non negotiable. You have to be supported by your ward/unit manager. Secondment places are worked out by the strategic health authority for your area, who allocate places across several trusts. For example, my authority allocated to 5 hospitals. So initially the prospect was "opportunity to apply for the 100 student sponsored places" but when the actual time came my hospital got less than a dozen places.....yet its the biggest hospital!. Guess they worked it out by the fact that the huge uni nearby was going to churn out enough NQs in the future.

hth
TJ

Staff Nurse and OU graduate

clairec79

No they don't (although I believe in Scotland they guarantee you a years contract)

tyler2027

clairec79 wrote: »

No they don't (although I believe in Scotland they guarantee you a years contract)

Hi Claire,

Yes, your quite right thank you for reminding me about Scotland! If the original poster is in Scotland, read on, if not it won't apply!
But be aware that the scheme applies to all NQs regardless of the route taken through training. Furthermore, it does not guarantee a job on qualifying.


The One Year Job Guarantee. Its currently working on the following basis. If a newly qualified nurse has not got a job after trying "through their own endeavours" ie a proven record of trying but failing to secure....then this scheme kicks in. It aims to match newly qualified registrants with vacancies across Scotland. It does not guarantee a position locally. The problem with this part of the scheme is the sheer number of NQs and the lack of suitable jobs.

So they have created internship opportunities. These are part time (22.5 hours pw) temporary positions lasting a few months, aimed at the nurse completing " flying start programme"

So the only guarantee is that a Scottish NQ might get offered an internship somewhere, at some point after they qualify....the most telling is the bit where they state "an internship will not lead to a permanent offer of employment"

But here's the rub (as my Scottish colleagues have found out). The creation of these internships are leading to even lower levels of recruitment. The permanent job is harder to find when a trust knows they have a backlog and never ending constant supply of NQs coming through as temp workers. And there only so many internships available at an given time...demand outstrips supply.

Still, at least Scotland are doing something for their NQs which is more than the other countries!! But the cynic in me says the trusts are getting a lot more out of it.....if they can create internships, why cant they create jobs !!!! and why are the internships only seeming to be in specific areas (heavy med/surgical/elderly wards) so no choice over where you go or what you do.


TJ

debrag

tyler2027 wrote: »

The answer to your question is no - there is no guarantee of employment at the end of training. In todays climate, some newly qualifieds can pick and choose which area to work in because some hospitals are hiring and there's not enough graduates coming out of the local uni. Sadly, other NQs really struggle. Their local hospitals are not hiring or not hiring NQs. I am a staff nurse and lucky to be in an area with plenty of jobs. I work alongside Scottish and Irish nurses who had to relocate to get their first posting, months after qualifying.

Lets hope things improve for all nursing students in the future!

There are two types of secondment and you need to establish which one your trust is offering.

The older type of secondment. An employee becomes a full time (3years) student at the local university. Your paid a percentage of your wage. The only thing they guarantee is if you fail your course or leave they will find a job for you somewhere in the trust on the same job scale as the one you left ie band 2/3 but it doesn't have to be the same hours/same role. These contracts do not specify a qualified nursing job at the end, only that you have to work for them for at least 2 years or you will have to pay back a percentage of the training costs. If the trust has jobs it seems logical that the trust would employ you if you pass equally at interview with say a non seconded trained - the problems arise when there are no jobs.

The newer type of secondment (more than likely its this type). An employee continues to work in their role for 22.5 hrs pw. The other 15 hrs pw is spent gaining clinical experience in other areas and study. Your not regarded as a full time student. You get paid a percentage of your salary, the usual rate is 75-80%. Don't know what student financial help is available though (there was a little bit of help when the course was diploma, but now theres only degree training)

Your academic work is through the Open University not the local uni. There is no guarantee of a job at the end, but no obligations to pay back any training costs and your free to apply where ever you want for work. Note that as your nursing degree is studied for at a part time rate, the minimum length of time to qualify is 4 years and the maximum 7. This is due to the Nursing and Midwifery Councils criteria that all pre registration students have to complete 2300 hours of academic study and 2300 hours of clinical practice. As you can work out you only have 15 available student hours per week (not including hols) so you would have to use all that up doing clinical placement and then do studying on top to do it all in four years!!

Also, be aware that with secondment you have to fulfil criteria in order to apply for it within your trust. These are essential criteria and non negotiable. You have to be supported by your ward/unit manager. Secondment places are worked out by the strategic health authority for your area, who allocate places across several trusts. For example, my authority allocated to 5 hospitals. So initially the prospect was "opportunity to apply for the 100 student sponsored places" but when the actual time came my hospital got less than a dozen places.....yet its the biggest hospital!. Guess they worked it out by the fact that the huge uni nearby was going to churn out enough NQs in the future.

hth
TJ

Staff Nurse and OU graduate

Ah someone I work with is doing it through the OU. Our trust has City Uni and South Bank as well but I take it most are this then This lady only does one 12.5 hr shift a week though.

The trust I'm hoping to be employed in uses Brighton Uni. I'd much prefer a local uni to OU as I'm with them at the moment plus it take too long.

tyler2027

Hi,

So unless I am mistaken your aiming to move trusts. Good choice Brighton


Most people that apply for secondment are working full time - as that's the most common reason for applying, they cannot afford to do it the full time student route. Seems as though this lady was a part time H.C.A? Seems really odd though, as I would have thought the amount of reduced wages she gets would be on par with full time student financial income - unless she wouldn't have got any student finance or maybe wanted the guarantee of her job there as a back up.

Right back to you. From what you said about the trust you hoping to get a job in, it uses a local uni. That means it can only be the older type of secondment then....so you would be a full time student doing the three year course.

You need to get hold of trust info regarding criteria for secondment. I don't know theirs, and whilst every hospital can differ in some aspects of criteria, there is a core element that must be met by all which is a minimum C grade in both Literacy and numeracy - or level 2 equivelant. As crazy as it seems you can already hold a degree or diploma and they would take that as the Literacy element, but you have to have a separate numeracy qualification!

The reason I'm pointing that out now is I had one of my H.C.A.s try for secondment and I pointed it out to her and she was like "nah its allright I will tell them I will do it if they give me a place". Of course she was rejected at the first stage. Its non negotiable, you have to have it!

Which brings me back to the other criteria where each trust can differ. My trust for example, for secondments you have to work there two years minimum, exemplary absence record and you can be working anywhere in the hospital. A Neighbouring trust - only have to be there one year, absence record not relevant, but applicants must be employed as H.C.A.s not any other form of support staff.

So you can see why you need to arm yourself with info. You might find out that financially there may not be a lot in it when comparing HCA pay for the qualifying period and then the training - compared to just going ahead and doing the full time course and qualifying quicker. As an aside, although the student finance for full time has gone down considerably now the diplomas gone, there is a lot of scope for students to do bank HCA work alongside their course (many do, I did) and its tax free as its nigh on impossible to do that many shifts a month where you would breech your tax code! so your looking at the potential to work on top of the course and add hundreds each month to your student finances.

In contrast, with the OU secondment its a lot harder to do a decent amount of bank shifts. Partly because they allocate your hours between your work shifts, clinical placements and tutorials, and partly because they check up on your worked hours to see if it exceeds a given amount. The other thing is that your tax allowance is used against your wages, so any bank shifts tend to get taxed!

Good luck!
TJ

debrag

My current trust only asks you to be there a year. I have Cs in GCSE English and Maths so I should be ok with that.

The lady I work with usually has one shift during the week and then bank shifts at weekends and when she doesn't have a module.

I'm always worried about getting enough bank hours if I went full-time direct to uni.

clairec79

Don't be - I always had the offer of more bank shifts than I needed - especially as I got known (and liked) on a few wards so would go in and could pick my shifts (and in some cases they'd fit in round my placement so placement would finish (with them) and I'd then do a bank shift straight after) before they went to the general bank - did 1-2 a week normally then full time in the holidays