Labour & the Conservatives

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Six kids were killed by their parents and it so happens they all lived on benefits - it needs to be an artful politician that manages to link this to a policy of welfare reform without looking like an ambulance chaser.

so you are saying that politicians should NOT discuss philpotts live style and others than share that?

or are you simply advocating better 'spin'?

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are saying that politicians should NOT discuss philpotts live style and others than share that?

or are you simply advocating better 'spin'?

If they want to use this single example then, yes, the 'spin' needs to be very carefully applied. The answer to the question was well rehearsed and the consequences thought out. Wouldn't surprise me if this visit wasn't timed to take advantage of this opportunity.

Osborne is free to talk about Philpott's lifestyle and benefits claims as he wishes. However, Philpott has been a high profile abuser of the benefits system for years - don't really recall Osborne mentioning him before though.

Jennifer_Jane

Perhaps he's never been asked the question before! Certainly Philpott was well-known to the public before not least because of Ann Widdicombe's week-long stay with the family.

Surely if George Osborne had been planning the trip to Derby to coincide with the court case judgment, and the judge could have wanted more time to consider the case - so it seems a remarkable piece of PR timing to accomplish the coincidence - GO did not volunteer the remark. If the BBC journalist hadn't asked the question, it would never have been made.

As for spin, well we know which party became so expert at that, don't we - remembering the line "It's a good day to bury bad news" was from a Labour MP.

I think this has been overplayed by Stephen Twigg, Ed Balls and so on. People who are known to gleefully leap into a mass of hyperbole at the slightest chance. They repeat and repeat and repeat, and it becomes part of the public subconscious, and you need to be quite strong-willed not to start believing their propaganda.

StevieJ

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Over the last couple of years, I have spent much time reading posts on this board, reading newspapers online, and listening to Parliament Live and the BBC. The hypocrisy, the holier-than-thou attitude, and political grandstanding of Labour is breathtaking.
.

What about the couple of years before that, if you had been as fastidious in your observations prior to 2010 you may well have observed the same behaviour from the then current opposition, they are all pretty much feed from the same trough

Jennifer_Jane

StevieJ wrote: »

What about the couple of years before that, if you had been as fastidious in your observations prior to 2010 you may well have observed the same behaviour from the then current opposition, they are all pretty much feed from the same trough

Well, that's interesting, and something I had been wondering. I retired in September 2009, and then the Coalition was here in 2010. I really only took note of things from Sept 09, but would have been missing PMQ etc even then, and so on.

So I'll take your word for it, and am saddened that they're all at it. Never mind, I'm sure that I'll being seeing it from the other side in 2015.

wotsthat

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

Well, that's interesting, and something I had been wondering. I retired in September 2009, and then the Coalition was here in 2010. I really only took note of things from Sept 09, but would have been missing PMQ etc even then, and so on.

So I'll take your word for it, and am saddened that they're all at it. Never mind, I'm sure that I'll being seeing it from the other side in 2015.

They're all at it..

Tony Blair attempted to make political capital from the James Bulger murder when John Major was in power. David Cameron attempted the same over the Baby P murder when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister.

This is different in that Mick Phipott has been a notorious benefits abuser for decades; he's well known - there has been ample opportunity for Osborne to use him as a poster boy well before now.

Also quite odd in that it's unusual for a government minister to hint that over generous benefits are a factor in some of societies ills when he's had three years so far to do something about it. This type of thing is usually an opposition tactic.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

They're all at it..



Also quite odd in that it's unusual for a government minister to hint that over generous benefits are a factor in some of societies ills when he's had three years so far to do something about it. This type of thing is usually an opposition tactic.

I am a little surprised by this; you must read different newspaper and watch different TV programs

It would seem to me that 'reform' of the benefits system has been a constant theme of the conservatives for some years.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am a little surprised by this; you must read different newspaper and watch different TV programs

It would seem to me that 'reform' of the benefits system has been a constant theme of the conservatives for some years.

I think you got the point.

Opposition parties are more likely to use the tactic 'oh this shocking thing has happened and it's a sad indictment on government policy about x, y, z'

More unusual for a chancellor to say 'oh this shocking thing has happened and it's a sad indictment on my government's policies'; especially three years in.

Mick Philpott came out of prison in 1985 - he's not party political - he's milked the system whoever's been in power. He's seen off 5 conservative chancellors and two labour.

If it hadn't been for his own gross stupidity he would have been seeing off a few more chancellors in the future too.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I think you got the point.

Opposition parties are more likely to use the tactic 'oh this shocking thing has happened and it's a sad indictment on government policy about x, y, z'

More unusual for a chancellor to say 'oh this shocking thing has happened and it's a sad indictment on my government's policies'; especially three years in.

Mick Philpott came out of prison in 1985 - he's not party political - he's milked the system whoever's been in power. He's seen off 5 conservative chancellors and two labour.

If it hadn't been for his own gross stupidity he would have been seeing off a few more chancellors in the future too.

Unfortunately too often the actual issues, here benefits lifestyle choices and how we should change this but instead get bogged down about the minor tactical issues of whether the government in power should admit it hasn't solved all the world's problem in just 3 years.

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

Unfortunately too often the actual issues, here benefits lifestyle choices and how we should change this but instead get bogged down about the minor tactical issues of whether the government in power should admit it hasn't solved all the world's problem in just 3 years.

Given the state of the UK's finances. Perhaps the Tories have decided to pre-empt Labours wait and see approach by bringing matters into open debate now. The next election may be decided before a vote is even cast.