Dignity at Work

Thomas_Hardy

Honeypie wrote: »

I have been in a similar position to the OP. They may well say this is about him and no one else, but if an employer is going to dismiss someone for gross misconduct, and others have done the same and no action was taken against them, then it could be seen as unfair dismissal.

It would not be unfair dismissal. A tribunal (sorry Acc72 ) would look at whether dismissal was in the band of reasonable responses, and it clearly is.

zzzLazyDaisy

Honeypie wrote: »

if an employer is going to dismiss someone for gross misconduct, and others have done the same and no action was taken against them, then it could be seen as unfair dismissal.

That very much depends on when he started work for the employer - hence my question which OP has not yet replied to.

If he started work before 5th April 2012, then he needs to have been with the employer for 12 months less one week, in order to qualify for protection from unfair dismissal. Assuming that is the case, the employer must follow fair procedures and the decision to dismiss must be reasonable in all the circumstances.

However, if he started working for the Employer on 5th April or after, then during the first TWO YEARS of employment, the employer can dismiss for any reason or no reason at all, as long as the reason does not breach equality legislation, which is not an issue on these facts. In that case, OP is up the creek without a paddle, as the employer can pretty much do what it likes with no come-back.

So until we know the start date, it seems to me that any comments are just speculation. Although for what it is worth, in my view, calling someone a 'f-tard' ( an abbreviation for F'ing !!!!!!) is much more offensive than referring to them as a 'bad apple' or even an 'idiot'. Putting this in writing is also potentially more damaging than making a verbal comment, since the evidence is indisputable. Depending on the facts of the case, and OP's general demeanour and approach at the disciplinary hearing, this could certainly be grounds for a gross misconduct dismissal, and the advice to go in, apologise profusely and grovel, is very good advice.

Thomas_Hardy

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

So until we know the start date, it seems to me that any comments are just speculation. Although for what it is worth, in my view, calling someone a 'f-tard' ( an abbreviation for F'ing !!!!!!) is much more offensive than referring to them as a 'bad apple' or even an 'idiot'. Putting this in writing is also potentially more damaging than making a verbal comment, since the evidence is indisputable.

I could be wrong but I don't think that was the word used - the phrase f***tard is quite "in" with younger types, an abbreviation for f'ing retard

gb12345

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Although for what it is worth, in my view, calling someone a 'f-tard' ( an abbreviation for F'ing !!!!!!) is much more offensive than referring to them as a 'bad apple' or even an 'idiot'.

The meaning of the word is actually worse than your definition - see Thomas Hardy's post #6 for it's actual origin.

Honeypie

Thomas_Hardy wrote: »

It would not be unfair dismissal. A tribunal (sorry Acc72 ) would look at whether dismissal was in the band of reasonable responses, and it clearly is.

Let's say the OP has been with their employer for a few years (taking into consideration zzzLazyDaisy's post), if others have made similar derogatory comments and no action taken against them then (and he got sacked, say) it could form part of his argument. It doesn't have to go to tribunal to get a more positive outcome.

bitemebankers

Sounds like an open and shut case. If I were the OP I'd be sprucing up my and searching the job listings. If he's got a particularly lenient boss, grovelling may work, but the boss has a duty of care to his/her other staff so the OP's fate may well be sealed.

Reggie_Rebel

ianuk1 wrote: »

Others have done the same though using bad apples, idiots, fools, etc. f-tard is a commonly used word to describe idiots, etc.

For me F-tard is far worse than bad apples, idiots etc. In fact I doubt anyone has used the phrase bad apples in the workplace since 1958.

If I'd been called a f-tard by internet in the workplace then I'd be most unchuffed

scooby088

OP I think your up a creek without a paddle, and if one of my co workers called me that I would more than likely put in a grievance against you.

zzzLazyDaisy

Thomas_Hardy wrote: »

I could be wrong but I don't think that was the word used - the phrase f***tard is quite "in" with younger types, an abbreviation for f'ing retard

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification... let's hope for OP's sake, the employer isn't as clued up as you are, since 'retard' is a very clearly derogatory term for someone who is disabled by virtue of their mental capacity. This is almost certainly a clear breach of the employers Equality and Dignity at Work Procedures (presumably hence the title of this thread). In this day and age employers tend to be very quick to clamp down on anything that smacks of unlawful discrimination and this could make OP's position even more precarious.

LunaLady

ianuk1 wrote: »

Others have done the same though using bad apples, idiots, fools, etc. f-tard is a commonly used word to describe idiots, etc.


Ian (UK)

No, its a offensive term that you may use, but its no where near in the same league as 'bad apple'.

I suggest you buy a dictionary.