Giving Notice Problem

mrbreckles

Thank you for all the replies.
Just to clarify why me and my partner are posting seperatly. I work as an engineer and don't have access to my phone or email for almost the whole of the day, whereas my partner does.

Everything my partner and I worked out ourselves has been pretty much confirmed between the replies; nice to know we're not going completely mental with stress

So, to clarify, it seems the situation we have is one of negotiation.
The landlord has commented to us today that they're paid up in their current let until a week in to May, so my reasoning is, as they didn't issue us with a valid s21 notice, could we not make this apparent to them that if they would like to move back in to this property when their own tenancy is up that it's in their best interest/s to let us move out now?
As has been mentioned, there's nothing now stopping us keeping shtum about the whole thing until a few days before the end of April and drop it on them that we're now giving a months notice, or they serve us our 2 months.

I hate to act in what may be seen as a petty way, however I feel that with the way the LL has gone back on their word multiple times, they're deserving of it.

They've commented at various points throughout our time here about how well we look after the house, we've never made a late rent payment (in fact in our 7 years of renting, not one late payment has been made at any property we've been in)

My line of thinking is to get the inventory we were issued with and signed and to go through the house and get it as close as damn it to the spec of the inventory.
The last place we lived in tried to fleece us out of deposit money for redecorating that was blatantly fair wear and tear. I successfully argued the 'fair wear and tear' policy ( a good 2 page long email) and it was agreed that they would drop it.

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at putting the facts together succinctly and I'm hoping the fact we're armed with solid facts, that they may cut the cr*p and let us go as they informally said they would to begin with.

Thanks again all for the help.

murrayfan_2

RAS wrote: »

have you checked whether an S21 was issued when the tenancy was signed as this is quite common.

If no valid S21 has been issued you have the option of declining the new property and then waiting until the end of April to alert the LL to their problem. So you can stay until July 27 before the LL can even start legal action to get you out.

In May, make it absolutely plain to the LL that you will move earlier IF and only if they allow you to leave at very short notice, if required. Get that agreement in writing before you book any alternative accommodation.

Yes, I agree with this. Try to reach a reasonable agreement whilst also asserting your rights, if they have any common sense they'll want to reach an agreement too.

mrbreckles

Right then, bit of an update, ill write it in short paragraphs as its easier to follow I'm sure.

Emailed LL to ask if she would meet us half way (we would pay up to 15th of April) even though we'd be moving out over this coming weekend.

LL replied with (and i'm paraphrasing here as I'm not sure of the legality of divulging private emails verbatim) "You can move out earlier but you'll have to still pay the rent"

This made me want to issue a "no sh*t Sherlock"-esque reply but I refrained.
As this was when we realised she has no interest in trying to compromise, I dropped the fact that she hasnt served a valid s21 notice to quit so we would like her to still consider meeting us halfway (which i would get in writing), or, we could insist she serves the notice.

Her reply was one of "it begs belief that we would send an email like that and her faith in humanity is shattered" (the latter comment im not paraphrasing)

Pretty bold words. Now, I understand the melodrama, she's probably angry, but I've kept the replies professional and courteous despite this because that's how we feel it should be dealt with, but also, if it ever ends up going further, we not only have the facts on our side but also evidence of professionalism on our part.

Still waiting for a reply from the LL ( our rent date is tomorrow) so if we receive the s21 after that date, does it then go to the 28th April + 2 months = 28th June?

EDIT: Also, i had a read through our Tenancy Agreement and went through every point, making sure we havn't broken any part of it.
After that i dug out the certificate we were issued with for the gas system (this was checked before Christmas time) The boiler, ventilation, flues etc are fine, however the emergency cut-off valve is noted on their as "On/off valve falls to on position" (meaning if we have to cut the supply in an emergency, it has the potential to fall down and turn back on)
Not only that but the valve is noted as being innaccessible (for some reason its built in to a recess in the wall covered by one of those plastic vent grills)

Basically on the certificate the 'Satisfactory visual inspection' is ticked No as well as the Emergency cut off accessible, again ticked as No.
Now engineer/inspector has made notes at the bottom stating what work is required. The LL said this would be done but it still isn't. In the meantime we have had to leave the vent cover unscrewed just in case we need to access the valve, but this valve links up the gas meter on the outside wall (which doesnt even have a door, again this is mentioned on the certificate) there's a direct hole to outside.
You can imagine how cold the house is im sure. We've had to stop using the downstairs of the house besides the kitchen for cooking.

Legally, should this not have been fixed (not be left for approximatly 4 months) and if the LL decides to call our bluff and issue us with an s21, could we not vacate the property on the basis that it doesnt have a valid gas safety certificate and that the repairs required are also causing the house to be as cold as it is.

Put it this way, if we want to sit downstairs (we tried) we have to put the central heating on, as well as the living room fire, as well as sit there fully clothed with a coat on/blanket over us. It probably sounds like an exageration but im quite a warm person as it is.
I know that being cold is a relative personal thing, but im just wondering where we stand legally so i can get the facts together.

Ended up being a lengthy message again, but i didnt want to miss anything.

Cheers.

G_M

mrbreckles wrote: »

Still waiting for a reply from the LL ( our rent date is tomorrow) so if we receive the s21 after that date, does it then go to the 28th April + 2 months = 28th June?

Yes -assuming your Tenancy Periods run from 29th to 28th which
a) I don't think they do (28 - 27 is more likely)
b) we don't know as you've only ever quoted the date rent is paid (unless I've overlooked a post)

EDIT: Also, i had a read through our Tenancy Agreement and went through every point, making sure we havn't broken any part of it.
After that i dug out the certificate we were issued with for the gas system (this was checked before Christmas time) The boiler, ventilation, flues etc are fine, however the emergency cut-off valve is noted on their as "On/off valve falls to on position" (meaning if we have to cut the supply in an emergency, it has the potential to fall down and turn back on)
Not only that but the valve is noted as being innaccessible (for some reason its built in to a recess in the wall covered by one of those plastic vent grills)

Basically on the certificate the 'Satisfactory visual inspection' is ticked No as well as the Emergency cut off accessible, again ticked as No.
Now engineer/inspector has made notes at the bottom stating what work is required. The LL said this would be done but it still isn't. In the meantime we have had to leave the vent cover unscrewed just in case we need to access the valve, but this valve links up the gas meter on the outside wall (which doesnt even have a door, again this is mentioned on the certificate) there's a direct hole to outside.
You can imagine how cold the house is im sure. We've had to stop using the downstairs of the house besides the kitchen for cooking.

Legally, should this not have been fixed (not be left for approximatly 4 months) and if the LL decides to call our bluff and issue us with an s21, could we not vacate the property on the basis that it doesnt have a valid gas safety certificate and that the repairs required are also causing the house to be as cold as it is.

.

I am not an expert but believe that if the boiler failed completely (ie dangerous) the engineer would switch it off at the time of the inspection and cover it with red stickers warning not to switch on!

Other matters are 'advice' of work needed: I'm not sure what legal force they have.

See more here: http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/advice/gas_certificates.aspx
and call GasSafe if you want more info.

I'm unclear what your aim is still. You want to leave (early), yet you are telling the LL to serve you a S21 which will delay leaving by 2 or more months?

Have YOU served notice yet? If YOU miss the deadline (28th or whenever) it further delays YOUR option to leave.

One option might be to wait till (date?) then contact again and say "either you agree to Early Surrender on the date we want or we will be unable to leave, so will stay long-term (ie at least 3 months and maybe longer"

sham63

G_M wrote: »

One option might be to wait till (date?) then contact again and say "either you agree to Early Surrender on the date we want or we will be unable to leave, so will stay long-term (ie at least 3 months and maybe longer"

I agree.

I would be very tempted to stay put and insist on a valid S21, even though this might be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

It's unbelievable that they think this should all be done to suit their circumstances - after all,what is the likelihood of you being able to find a suitable property that's available on exactly the same day they want to move back in?

I think you have to decide how much you want the new house you have found – if you force them to serve notice and they miss tomorrow's deadline you've got 3 months to find something else.

If you do decide it's not worth the hassle and move out this weekend and pay rent to the end of the month, make sure you don't let them have early access – hand back the keys at the last possible moment.

mrbreckles

It appears the LL has relented.

The idea behind us asking the LL to issue the s21 was along the lines of "you verbally agreed with us in good faith that we could leave early, you've gone back on that so either a) honour our verbal agreement or b) issue an s21 and be stuck with us for another 2 months at least"

It could well have been a 'cut your nose of to spite your face' issue but for me, I'd rather do that based on the principle that we thought it was an amicable agreement for us to leave as soon as we find somewhere suitable, than have to cough up the extra cash.

So yes, LL has said we can meet half way and pay up until the 15th. I've asked that this be confirmed in writing and am awaiting a reply to that effect.

sham63

That's great.

You're right to want it in writing - otherwise they might try & take it from the deposit, especially if they now feel hard done by.

mrbreckles

sham63 wrote: »

That's great.

You're right to want it in writing - otherwise they might try & take it from the deposit, especially if they now feel hard done by.

Precisely. I think what made it click with them was when we explained basically, their LL puts on them and so they're now putting on us and although it isn't an ideal situation for all parties involved, we've tried to be fair and meet in the middle.

Again, thanks all that have offered their help. If any mods are reading, would it be ok to have the thread left open for a couple of days, just in case they decide to try and get crafty again?

G_M

It will be. Threads are not closed (they just disappear into a virtual world of their own till someone lovingly retrieves them!).