Can you be refused a union rep for a disciplinary? At what point would you see an...

Use_her_name

...employment solicitor?

Basically i've received my first disciplinary notice. It says that i can be accompanied by a work colleague, though it does not follow this up by saying 'or trade union representative' that i know other workers have had in their letters.

The outcome of my hearing may be dismissal it states. So obviously i want the union there, but i'm not sure whether i have the right to as the letter doesn't state i can have the union.
Does it depend on my contract? Or other factors?


And would you go solely with the union on this (don't they have their own solicitors?), or would at any point you draft in an employment solicitor? Or would this only be if/when dismissed?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. Head is all over right now.

Takeaway_Addict

Speak to your union because no they cannot refuse you.

However, when did you start working for them?

ohreally

You have a statutory right... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/26/section/10

Representation by a solicitor may only be permitted in a few select circumstances.

Funky_Bold_Ribena

I'd respond that I will be attending with union rep <name them>.

C_Mababejive

What do you think your union rep will do for you if anything?

lulu650

To be honest it sounds like a typing mistake.

You need to make contact with your union first to see if anyone is free on the date specified. If that date/time is not acceptable there is a right to change the date by 5 days, although most employers would recognise that the new date may need to be later

Use_her_name

Thanks for the clear up.

I've been working for this firm for over 2 years now.

Regards the 5 days - a co-worker has had plenty of experience with this union & said that work have always given them real short deadlines to meet, so that a 5 day delay is still really short notice & that the union always struggle or even can't make it, even with the 5 day delay.

Though my co-worker has never faced a dismissal hearing, so i don't know if the union would make one a priority.


As for what i expect them to do? I'm not sure tbh. Their presence will certainly make sure the meeting is conducted in the correct manner that's for sure, as without them i can almost guarantee you it wont.

I'm being hit with a 2 pronged attack & i disagree strongly with the 2nd. The first i have no choice, but the 2nd is false. They claim to have investigated yet i've found out they haven't.

So hopefully if we can get that scratched off then i can focus on the other fault. It was an accident which wasn't helped by faulty equipment. Not caused by, but wasn't helped by. I was stopped from putting this in a report. Hopefully the union could try & wangle the punishment being brought down, even to a final warning.

Honeypie

So they've conducted the investigation before speaking to you? You have the right to access of all of the information they have regarding this, so that you can prepare your 'defence'.

I would also recommend you speak to ACAS for advice. I found they were a great help.

You should have someone with you - even if it's not possible to have a rep there for whatever reason.

spacey2012

Start making a list of names and things others have done.
Always have some artillery ready.

paulineb_2

Ive worked in organisations that do not recognise trade unions and in a previous job I wasnt allowed a trade union rep in a meeting. Wasnt a disciplinary meeting, but it was not pleasant. The next time I was supposed to go into a meeting I insisted that I had a family member with me.

I can perfectly understand why you dont want a work colleague in with you (unless they are a union rep). I worked in a small gym last year and I turned up for work one day to be given a letter at 19 hours notice to basically say, come in tomorrow to a meeting where your future will be decided and you can only bring a work colleague. I refused to go under those circumstances. They also repeatedly refused to tell me what I was supposed to have done, even though 3 disciplinary meetings were arranged (while I was off with work related stress). It took them a month to put anything on paper (two gym members had apparently complained about me, one 6 months after I spoke to her once and one anonymous). I was the second person who was treated like that that year but the only person who complained

They also completely bypassed the investigatory stage in my case, they couldnt be bothered. There was no investigation done to see whether any of the complaints had any truth in them, none of my co workers were spoken to (but one of them got sitting in a grievance and disciplinary meeting while I was off sick). My boss just made up her mind she wanted me out and that was that. I basically told them to do their worst, by that time I had had enough. I was also told in writing, that I would lose my appeal against my sacking before it was lodged.

It is a statutory right to have a union rep in with you, but some employers dont recognise them, however that lack of recognition shouldnt affect your right to take one in. Id always say take a rep in over a work colleague and in some cases employers do allow employment law solicitors in hearings.

Make sure you know the agenda of the meeting before you go in. Make sure you know every detail of the case against you. Make sure you know what your own company policies are on disciplinary and grievance. Have a look at ACAS website because they give details of what good practice is when dealing with investigation, disciplinary and grievance. Make sure you get every detail of the meeting recorded in writing and if you feel you havent been treated fairly through this process, complain and do it now before the process gathers momentum.

Speaking as someone who has both been on the receiving end of crappy workplace treatment and someone who has managed staff, you can find just about everything you need to know about investigations, what your rights are, through a google search. Some companies dont know their backside from their elbow. Others will just take advantage of the fact that workers will be stressed if theres a threat of disciplinary action. Other employers will treat workers fairly and use disciplinary action as a last resort (unfortunately Ive met few of them in my working life)

And you have the right to ask for a meeting to be postponed until your union rep can attend and knows the full case against you, its not realistic to expect people to rock up at 24 hours notice or less.

Use_her_name

Honeypie wrote: »

So they've conducted the investigation before speaking to you?

According to the minutes of our meeting & the evidence against me that's been provided to me, the 'investigation' has already taken place.

Apparently they (work) have enquired with my line manager as to how other people in my dept work regarding this incident (sorry for being vague but i don't want to go into too much detail).
The paper says that the department, including the worker who trained me, all carry out this procedure as the company say they want it carried out.

However i have found out that NONE of the department have been asked how they carry out this procedure.
Instead, they have been told how to carry it out properly & told this is what you need to do, make sure you do it.


So when i say "Joe Bloggs showed me this way when they were training me" i would expect an investigation of Joe Bloggs to be interviewed asking him whether he showed me that way or not & i would expect him to be interviewed by the same people interviewing me instead of some 3rd party conducting the interview.

Turns out none of that took place. Joe Bloggs hasn't been asked a thing.


I could ask Joe to do me a big time favour to put pen to paper to say that yes that was the way he taught me & the way he had been doing it, but that he's now been shown the correct way which he now does.

This would back up my story without putting Joe in a terrible light (he now knows the correct way to do it sounds better than "he did it wrong & continues to do it wrong so up yours").

It frustrates me that seemingly no proper investigation has taken place.