Northern Rail fixed penalty notice

carpe_vino

thanks but I am fairly determined not to be penalised for a non existent crime!

katejo

ljonski wrote: »

If this is the case you may find that its better to pay up and get it over with as you have more important battles to face!

I don't agree as it will then unfairly remain on your record. If it were me, I would object on principle. There were extenuating circumstances which caused you to arrive at the station in a rush. You made an effort to buy a ticket at the end of the journey but they chose not to believe you. It was particularly important to get to the interview.
I would write to them, give the combined circumstances and send a copy of the ticket which you did buy.

carpe_vino

thanks glad someone thinks I'm right to fight this! unfortunately 3 months later I don't still have the ticket and cant remember whether they actually took it or just looked at it.

I have now written to them (email) and also have passenger focus looking into it for me.

neil9313

carpe_vino wrote: »

thanks glad someone thinks I'm right to fight this! unfortunately 3 months later I don't still have the ticket and cant remember whether they actually took it or just looked at it.

I have now written to them (email) and also have passenger focus looking into it for me.

Have you got evidence of how you paid for the ticket

carpe_vino

no - it was £3.40, I paid cash!
They have written to me that I travelled from unknown to Deansgate, the fare for which is £0.00, and that they believe I had the intent of avoiding this fare. this says they have no idea where i got on the train, whilst my evidence (my address) suggests the most likely place for me to get on would be my nearest station - which is where I did get on and where I paid from.

geordie_taxi

sounds like their calling ur bluff. as the greedy train company knows their not going to get much from a upn £0.00 prosecution so their chancing that ur weak and will cough up fixed penalty notice which will help very nicely with the shareholders xmas party

if u still have the ticket i wud b tempted to write back enclosing a copy of the ticket stating that u deny any intent to avoid the fare as u purchase the ticket before leaving the station and r willing to defend this in a court of law and see wot they say. kind of a double bluff

but if u havent got the ticket then ur knackered and depending on the fixed penalty amount it mite just b easier to pay it than the thought of court

Stigy

carpe_vino wrote: »

thanks but I am fairly determined not to be penalised for a non existent crime!

I sympathise with your situation but it isn't a non-exist ant crime, as you failed in your obligation to pay before you boarded. By your own admission this is the case, whether you like it or not. By all means opt for a court hearing. Given it's been a few months, I'm assuming this is your only method of appeal now?

katejo

Stigy wrote: »

I sympathise with your situation but it isn't a non-exist ant crime, as you failed in your obligation to pay before you boarded. By your own admission this is the case, whether you like it or not. By all means opt for a court hearing. Given it's been a few months, I'm assuming this is your only method of appeal now?

But some train companies allow you to pay on the train. It is not always a requirement to do so in advance.

carpe_vino

the few months have not been my fault, i didn't hear anything from them and was unaware they were planning to take things further. I assume your point is that ignorance of the law doesn't excuse me but I would ask why equip the guard with the facility to take payment if it is against the law to board without paying, to someone who uses trains probably 2-3 times a year because it is A) crowded, unreliable and C) limited timetables, this suggests that paying the guard is acceptable?

Jeff_Bridges_hair

carpe_vino wrote: »

the few months have not been my fault, i didn't hear anything from them and was unaware they were planning to take things further. I assume your point is that ignorance of the law doesn't excuse me but I would ask why equip the guard with the facility to take payment if it is against the law to board without paying, to someone who uses trains probably 2-3 times a year because it is A) crowded, unreliable and C) limited timetables, this suggests that paying the guard is acceptable?

It is my understanding that Northern have had signs up at staffed stations and those with TVMs[1] for some time now telling passengers for the need to purchase a ticket before you commence travelling.

The guard has the facility to issue tickets due to the large amount of unstaffed stations and ones without even the TVM facility so that they can sell them the ticket they require for their journey.

They are massivley clamping down on fraudulent travel because they have been losing revenue left right and centre because of proper fare evaders.

This is a new scheme they are doing as they do not have a Penalty Fare scheme so its instead of them lining up lots and lots of court cases every day of the year when most people would probably settle out of court anyway instead of going to one and possibly incurring a higher penalty in the form of a fine from the court. This has not be questioned in a court yet to see whether this sort of fixed penalty is the right way to go about things in absence of a proper Penalty Fare scheme which would be too difficult to administer.


However, in your case, if you can prove, like you say you can with yoru address, that you got on where you came from because of your address and show you had purchased the ticket at your destination then they do not have a leg to stand on really with trying to administer this fixed penalty.

I would say to go HERE where there are staff and Railway legally trained people who will assist you further in both your letter back to Norther and your fight against what seems to be an unfair penalty awarded to you


[1] TVM = Ticket Vending Machine