Fascinating programme

marisco_2

One question, actually, did any of you go and see Schindlers List when it came out? I remember being so moved by it. I was shocked though by the responses of other cinema goers. Some like myself came out of the screening visibly distressed and moved and others were making comments that it was all made up and had been hugely exaggerated. I for one think Spielburg created a masterpiece with that film.

marisco_2

poet123 wrote: »

I am not sure he is dead, or if he is it is quite recent as my son who is in yr 11 was in an assembly not that long ago when he visited and spoke of his experiences. Not long afterwards the programme was on TV and he said I have met that man.

I hope I have got it wrong. People like this good man are very valuable to society.

GlynD

marisco wrote: »

One question, actually, did any of you go and see Schindlers List when it came out? I remember being so moved by it. I was shocked though by the responses of other cinema goers. Some like myself came out of the screening visibly distressed and moved and others were making comments that it was all made up and had been hugely exaggerated. I for one think Spielburg created a masterpiece with that film.

I have Schindler's List recorded and ready to watch again when I have three hours to spare. I've also read the book, long before the film was made although I am sure the book had a different title.

I think Spielberg did an excellent job on it.

Tropez

marisco wrote: »

One question, actually, did any of you go and see Schindlers List when it came out? I remember being so moved by it. I was shocked though by the responses of other cinema goers. Some like myself came out of the screening visibly distressed and moved and others were making comments that it was all made up and had been hugely exaggerated. I for one think Spielburg created a masterpiece with that film.

It is a great film. I didn't see it when it was first released as I was still quite young. There are several historical inaccuracies with the film and Oskar Schindler is portrayed as substantially more heroic than he actually was (although some of this evidence came to light after the film was made) but regardless, I still think it is a powerful piece of filmmaking and very few historical films actually stick to fact and nothing but.

One film I would recommend about the Holocaust is an Italian film called Life is Beautiful (English translation, obviously). It is based on a true story and is a film of two halves - the first half is akin to a romantic comedy, with a little foreboding of what is to come, while the second half is set in a concentration camp as a father attempts to hide the horrors of the Holocaust from his son by pretending it is a game. It is hard to do the film justice from a brief description but it is well worth watching.

marisco_2

I have seen Life is Beautiful and agree it is very good.

Robisere

During my own service in BAOR between 1968 and 1975, I saw Bergen-Belsen and Dachau. My visit to Bergen-Belsen came about whilst I was near there on a temporary detacment from my own unit. The atmosphere was as described by others: no birdsong, yellow grass in places, a definite temperature drop. I went 3 times, not because I am in any way !!!!!ish, but I had been a bit cynical and wanted to prove it to myself, without listening to others. (Anyone who has been in the forces, will know that service people tend to 'magnify' the truth, when telling a story!) The third visit was something else, I was affected by an increasingly cold feeling, not just the lack of warmth, but something within me wanted to be somewhere else. I never went back, nor would I ever want to.

Dachau was not a similar experience. I was in an advance party of my unit, going deep into Bavaria to exercise with the Alpine troops of the Bundeswehr. Our O/ic that day had arranged for us to visit Dachau (just north of Munich) on the way. The place was just as if the ovens had closed for the day, except that the Bavarian state government had made it into a memorial museum, with large photos of the atrocities and explanations in several languages which left nothing out about what happened there. I thought that was a very brave thing for them to do, especially when I saw parties of German schoolchildren being taken around. The truth was out there in the open. When you consider that it was 1969, and at least a generation had been born after the war, it was a very honest, open thing to see.

I became quite fluent in German, mainly because I am the type who likes to meet people, so I was able to talk to ordinary Germans in both places. In B-Belsen, several people who had lived nearby, said that they of course knew what was happening, but to speak of it meant that visit in the middle of the night and possible disappearance into a camp yourself. In Bavaria, especially amongst the young Bundeswehr guys I met, there was universal shame. One guy had even disowned his own grandfather because he had been a camp guard.

I do not think that those of us in our democratic country, can understand what it means to have lived under the Nazis in that time, with such a climate of fear. I do know that the generations of British and allied peoples who fought that war, deserve all our thanks and respect, for saving us the same fate. That is why, when I meet the dwindling number of old servicemen and women who did fight, I make a point of asking to shake their hands, and expressing my thanks.

I m sorry about the length of this post, but my last words have to include a plea on behalf of the German nation of 2013. Can we in this country, please respect the fact that it is now 68 years since WWII ended? The present generation of Germans are well aware of what was done by their ancestors, why do we have to keep punishing them? Many regrettable actions have been carried out in the name of Britain over the years, but we do not expect to be blamed for the actions of our ancestors.

marisco_2

Robisere wrote: »

I m sorry about the length of this post, but my last words have to include a plea on behalf of the German nation of 2013. Can we in this country, please respect the fact that it is now 68 years since WWII ended? The present generation of Germans are well aware of what was done by their ancestors, why do we have to keep punishing them? Many regrettable actions have been carried out in the name of Britain over the years, but we do not expect to be blamed for the actions of our ancestors.

I respect your post and you raise some extremely good points within it. My experience whilst at the Ann Frank museum in Amsterdam makes me question how truly well aware the present generation of Germans are of what was done by their ancestors. It was young Germans who I overheard making comments that the holocaust never took place and that I saw writing these views in the visitors books.

I dont wish to punish anyone for their views. It saddens me though that a possible small minority still think this way though.

Tropez

marisco wrote: »

I respect your post and you raise some extremely good points within it. My experience whilst at the Ann Frank museum in Amsterdam makes me question how truly well aware the present generation of Germans are of what was done by their ancestors. It was young Germans who I overheard making comments that the holocaust never took place and that I saw writing these views in the visitors books.

I dont wish to punish anyone for their views. It saddens me though that a possible small minority still think this way though.

My employer is headquartered in Germany and I have to go there a few times a year. Admittedly, while there we don't sit around discussing the Holocaust but from what I have gathered from the bit of time I've spent there the average German is ashamed by what happened in their history. It's actually quite strange from my perspective, after all the British don't tend to sit around feeling much shame for all the atrocities committed by this country during it's history (admittedly none on the same scale, but some still just as heinous in intent) but the Germans do.

But perhaps that is because the rest of the world, especially the British, won't let them forget it? Now, I don't think we should forget the Holocaust but the fact that a not insignificant number of people use any opportunity they can to equate Germany with Nazism, even today, when Germany has long since moved on, really rubs it into them and is wholly unnecessary.

And with that, I think comes a degree of resentment. Modern Germans, rightly, have a lot to be proud about. They're a modern, advanced society who have been reasonably successful battling against the recession, have the largest economy in Europe, a good manufacturing industry, tourist industry and all that goes with it but for some it is still overshadowed by what happened 70 years ago, that the majority of Germans today had nothing to do with. When you're proud of something and somebody else is intent on running you down because of something else, you may end up buying into something that "proves" them wrong. When you're young and impressionable, the angry rantings of others can seem to have truth to them. Teenagers and young adults buy into a lot of things they shouldn't, especially when they themselves are angry about something that wasn't their fault.

GlynD

Robisere wrote: »

During my own service in BAOR between 1968 and 1975, I saw Bergen-Belsen and Dachau............................................

BAOR was a real eye-opener for those of us who were interested enough to take it all in.

I too spent periods in the southern half of Germany, attached to CFB Lahr. Like all of those my love of the German people comes from being involved with them on a social basis. They are wonderful. Friendly and kind.

It wouldn't stop me making gags about the war though - I love stereotypes, I'm one myself!