We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Clear majority of people support Help To Buy
Comments
-
What is of relevance is that the calculation is the same over a long period of time, so you get the comparison using the same data in 1990 as in 2007, or in 1995 as in 2013.
And what that shows you is that there are only a handful of years in the last 32 years where buying a house has been cheaper.
If you want actual data on real house buyers, average LTV, average LTI, average price paid, average deposit size, etc, the CML provides that, but the data series is much shorter.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
How do they work out who's entitled?
I might borrow 20k out of it and just whack it in my savings when I move.
If someone has a decent deposit anyway then they may as well keep their savings on deposit and take the interest free loan. That assumes there's no interest rate differential between the two options.0 -
-
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Of course it's not accurate for actual house buyers.
Oh...
Eh?!And what that shows you is that there are only a handful of years in the last 32 years where buying a house has been cheaper.
So it't not accurate for actual buyers, but it shows you buying a house is cheaper. For whom then? Pixies?0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Oh...
Do you understand the point of a comparison using the same datasets?Eh?!
Oh.
Obviously not.:(“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
marathonic wrote: »With this scheme, that person could save a 5% deposit and purchase within a couple of years. Their monthly rent and house deposit money could then go towards a mortgage.
And people argue that the above is a bad thing?????
The argument against it isn't that people being able to afford deposits is a bad thing but that it addresses a symptom and ignore the cause: house prices are too high, and could actually make it worse.
If house prices decreased by another ~10-20% in real terms over the next few years then the amount needed for a deposit would be smaller compared to incomes and rents would likely fall as well making it easier to save for deposits.
Obviously the issue is more complex than just how lending works. Housebuilding etc are all important but it isn't unreasonable to see this measure as a bad thing in the long term.Having a signature removed for mentioning the removal of a previous signature. Blackwhite bellyfeel double plus good...0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »Do you understand the point of a comparison using the same datasets?
It's nice having this argument again Hamish.
How many ways will you come up with to avoid the issue that the data you represent is pretty much useless in the real world?
The FTB stuff I provided isn't that good, but it's at least 10x better than your data which you rely on all the time but can never even explain without a bucket full of holes leaking water everywhere.
You like this data as it shows what you want to show. That's fine. But you always end up in this same position of avoding every single issue the data presents, while finding ways of writing off anyone who questions it.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »So it't not accurate for actual buyers,
Correct.
It used average salaries of all people, not average salaries of actual house buyers, which would be higher.
But by using the same dataset over time it provides a good reference point of comparative affordability over the years.
If you want accurate data of actual buyers, the CML series has it, and shows much lower income multiples than this one.but it shows you buying a house is cheaper. For whom then? Pixies?
You're only making yourself look silly now....
Standardised indices and data series always use the same values over time. They are an illustration of the same hypothetical case across different years. They do not represent each and every individual buyer.
It avoids the very things you like to criticise in the CML data, like deposit size rising or falling over time, or a change in the type of properties people might be buying as prices rise or fall.
And by using the same example over the years, you can show times when buying is more expensive, and when it's cheaper.
What the data shows is that buying today is cheaper than it has been in all but a handful of years out of the last 32 years.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
If house prices decreased by another ~10-20% in real terms over the next few years then the amount needed for a deposit would be smaller compared to incomes and rents would likely fall as well making it easier to save for deposits.
Rents have risen to new record highs since house prices fell.
Why do you think they'd fall if more people were prevented form buying for longer, thus forcing more people to compete for the limited rental stock we have?“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.2K Spending & Discounts
- 245K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards