An Untrained Nurse For Mum? Healthcare Assistant Training Instead

Dunroamin

Person_one wrote: »

Students need to transfer at the beginning of the second year now, and this year's were obviously the last to be able to do that.

What was the situation where you were talking to these tutors? There are very obvious differences, such as the inclusion of research and management related modules and a dissertation.

They came to give a presentation to the Access course at the college where I was a careers adviser.

I have to say, your examples of the difference between the degree and diploma does rather beg the question of how these modules would make someone a better nurse.

Person_one

Dunroamin wrote: »

They came to give a presentation to the Access course at the college where I was a careers adviser.

I have to say, your examples of the difference between the degree and diploma does rather beg the question of how these modules would make someone a better nurse.

Really? You don't understand how an understanding of evidence based medicine and an appreciation of the challenges faced in managing the delivery of care on a larger scale would make someone a better nurse?

Dunroamin

Person_one wrote: »

Really? You don't understand how an understanding of evidence based medicine and an appreciation of the challenges faced in managing the delivery of care on a larger scale would make someone a better nurse?

It certainly sounds like a jolly good essay question!

Person_one

Dunroamin wrote: »

It certainly sounds like a jolly good essay question!

There ends the discussion then I suppose.

Bonus points for 'jolly', it always adds that little bit of extra condescension like a cherry on top.

Dunroamin

Person_one wrote: »

There ends the discussion then I suppose.

Bonus points for 'jolly', it always adds that little bit of extra condescension like a cherry on top.

"Jolly" is a word I use a lot - don't take it personally.

Thomas_Hardy

Dunroamin wrote: »

It certainly sounds like a jolly good essay question!

You make a valid point Dunroamin - strong academics do not always equate to a good practitioner. Beyond the fundamentals, nursing training in a practical environment is far more effective than that delivered in a lecture theatre.

Person_one

Thomas_Hardy wrote: »

You make a valid point Dunroamin - strong academics do not always equate to a good practitioner. Beyond the fundamentals, nursing training in a practical environment is far more effective than that delivered in a lecture theatre.

You need BOTH, which is what student nurses (even, shockingly, those taking degrees) get. 50% theory, 50% in clinical practice.

Thomas_Hardy

Person_one wrote: »

You need BOTH, which is what student nurses (even, shockingly, those taking degrees) get. 50% theory, 50% in clinical practice.

You missed my point entirely - a discussion of the theory behind managing the delivery of care has little use for the great majority of nurses. Their time would be far better used in clinical practice. Even if the individual wished to take on managerial responsibility, theory will play a very small part in helping them succeed. The most productive experience they can gain will be through observation, practice and mentoring.

Person_one

Thomas_Hardy wrote: »

You missed my point entirely - a discussion of the theory behind managing the delivery of care has little use for the great majority of nurses. Their time would be far better used in clinical practice. Even if the individual wished to take on managerial responsibility, theory will play a very small part in helping them succeed. The most productive experience they can gain will be through observation, practice and mentoring.

I disagree, theory is just as important as observation (which is vital, of course.)

We need to understand why certain things work better than others and how to look at situations critically and analytically in order to make improvements. It makes more sense to me to try and get nurses fired up, enthusiastic and questioning before they qualify than just hoping that will happen later on.

Once nurses are out there working to earn a living, they can too easily get entrenched in the status quo, or are so busy that they're just keeping their head above water day after day.

There are also other aspects to nursing theory besides theories of care delivery. There's history, ethics, psychology and sociology on the humanities side and anatomy, pharmacology and pathology on the science side. Not to mention things like health promotion and epidemiology.

Even if you don't care about your nurse having a basic grasp of ethical theory or the impact of your socio-economic status on your health, I'm sure you'd want your nurse to understand what the drugs are that she's putting into your veins, or to have a vague idea of what your illness is and how it progresses/is treated?

mumps

Dunroamin wrote: »

I've no antipathy to learning of any kind but I don't think that graduate nurses are any better educated than diploma nurses used to be.

My youngest is studying to be a nurse, doing the degree. I asked about the difference and was told that they do some common modules but degree students need to get a higher mark, degree students also do extra modules. Don't know if it is the same at all universities.

I don't really understand the problem people have with nursing degrees, when I left school some of my friends went into nursing, if they were doing SRN they did three years, part in the classroom and part on the ward. Seems the same now? I thought the main thing about giving nurse training degree status was exactly that, status. There used to be SEN and SRN nurses so always had differences.