An Untrained Nurse For Mum? Healthcare Assistant Training Instead

mountainofdebt

Well here's my penny's worth.

We've always had a two tier nursing system - whether you want to call it SRN/SEN/Nursing Auxillary or qualified nurses/health care assistants but the most important thing for me is the level of care that me and mine will receive in hospital - tbh I don't give two hoots whether that person looking after me has a degree or not but I do care about not being able to have a drink/ eat my food/ lying in urine or worse.

(and why nurses are deemed all to be 'angels' I don't know just as why all doctors are deemed to be next down to God)

It would be interesting to see if there was a colleration between the fall perceived or real) in the level of care and the rise of nurses with degrees .

Person_one

There have always been auxiliaries, but roles have changed massively and they have far more responsibilities for patient care than they used to.

When my mum was an auxiliary more than 30 years ago, the nurses couldn't even take bloods or put cannulas in, you had to wait for a doctor, now HCAs can do both of those.

Cherry_Bomb

Seeing as its the HCA's who do 99% of the care anyway I don't think we will see any effect (good or bad) with this move to degree only for nurses.

Person_one

Cherry_Bomb wrote: »

Seeing as its the HCA's who do 99% of the care anyway I don't think we will see any effect (good or bad) with this move to degree only for nurses.

99%?

Are you a HCA by any chance? :rotfl:

I've been both, and I disagree.

Cherry_Bomb

Person_one wrote: »

99%?

Are you a HCA by any chance? :rotfl:

I've been both, and I disagree.

Im a registered nurse actually.

HCA's do do the vast majority of the personal care whether your experience agrees with it or not. Who else do you think does it? When you're doing your AM drug round who's seeing to the washes? Who's answering the call bells when you're sat at the nurses station writing notes? Who's doing the vast majority of feeds when you're again busy with the lunch time drug round? Same goes for the evening and night time rounds. Who's seeing to the toileting and the repositioning?

Whether its making cups of tea or running down to pharmacy it falls to the HCA's (plus the students)

In a traditional setting they can't do the drugs, they can't do the IVs, the can't do the admissions/ discharges so what else would they be doing?

Dunroamin

Person_one wrote: »

Does that account for the nurses that 'topped up' through CPD courses after they were qualified?

Nursing involves career long learning, why the antipathy to it right at the beginning?

I've no antipathy to learning of any kind but I don't think that graduate nurses are any better educated than diploma nurses used to be.

Person_one

Cherry_Bomb wrote: »

Im a registered nurse actually.

HCA's do do the vast majority of the personal care whether your experience agrees with it or not. Who else do you think does it? When you're doing your AM drug round who's seeing to the washes? Who's answering the call bells when you're sat at the nurses station writing notes? Who's doing the vast majority of feeds when you're again busy with the lunch time drug round? Same goes for the evening and night time rounds. Who's seeing to the toileting and the repositioning?

Whether its making cups of tea or running down to pharmacy it falls to the HCA's (plus the students)

In a traditional setting they can't do the drugs, they can't do the IVs, the can't do the admissions/ discharges so what else would they be doing?

So dispensing medication isn't care then? Why is running to pharmacy care but writing notes isn't? Everybody answers call bells surely, I hope you don't just leave it to the HCAs!

I'm not denying that HCAs do an awful lot of the personal care and hygiene on the wards, but 99% is just hyperbole. I'm still a student so I suppose I can see all sides on this.

Person_one

Dunroamin wrote: »

I've no antipathy to learning of any kind but I don't think that graduate nurses are any better educated than diploma nurses used to be.

You of all people should understand the difference between the academic requirements of a level 5 and a level 6 qualification.

If there's no difference and no additional benefit, why are so many diploma nurses who are already out there working and doing a good job being funded to 'top up' by their employers?

Dunroamin

Person_one wrote: »

You of all people should understand the difference between the academic requirements of a level 5 and a level 6 qualification.

If there's no difference and no additional benefit, why are so many diploma nurses who are already out there working and doing a good job being funded to 'top up' by their employers?

Diploma educated nurses, like Cert Ed qualified teachers before them, know that they need a degree if they're going to have any chance of career progression.

Whilst I appreciate the different academic levels involved, the fact that students used to be able to transfer between the diploma and the degree at the end of the second year indicates to me that there isn't a great deal in it.

I tried to pin down tutors from one of our local universities (Southampton) on the difference between the advanced diploma and the degree (is it harder? is it more academic? does it cover a wider syllabus? are all questions I asked and was answered in the negative.) with no success.

Person_one

Dunroamin wrote: »

Diploma educated nurses, like Cert Ed qualified teachers before them, know that they need a degree if they're going to have any chance of career progression.

Whilst I appreciate the different academic levels involved, the fact that students used to be able to transfer between the diploma and the degree at the end of the second year indicates to me that there isn't a great deal in it.

I tried to pin down tutors from one of our local universities (Southampton) on the difference between the advanced diploma and the degree (is it harder? is it more academic? does it cover a wider syllabus? are all questions I asked and was answered in the negative.) with no success.

Students need to transfer at the beginning of the second year now, and this year's were obviously the last to be able to do that.

What was the situation where you were talking to these tutors? There are very obvious differences, such as the inclusion of research and management related modules and a dissertation.