Sorn renewal fine/court threat

tommyjj

Hi everyone,

I received a letter two days ago from Inter-Credit International saying that I had to pay £80 as an out of court settlement for failing to renew a SORN delcaration on a motorbike I owned a few years back. I rather stupidly thought that once it's SORNed it remains so until you tax or scrap it, thought it turns out you have to renew it every year. The period the claim relates to is march 2011 until june 2012 when I sold it.

They also appear to have sent reminders to my old address so I had no idea that it required renewing.

Anyway, I happened to watch the Budget yesterday and it turns out that from now on you only have to SORN a vehicle once, so things are now as I had initially assumed they were.

Is it worth lawyering-up and fighting this in court now that the law has changed? or will they just insist that the claim relates to a period before the law was changed - and it is therefore better just to pay them the £80 fine, rather than risk being taken for a lot more?

spiro

If they have been sending letters to old address, did you move before sold the bike and forget to tell them?

tommyjj

I moved at the end of 2011 - having not received any reminders.

Since the bike was SORNed I really didn't think about renewing the address on the V5, as I had planned to re-tax it in the summer of 2012.

In the end I sold it to a guy in the motor trade in June 2012 and sent off the relevant part of the V5 (along with the V5 for a car I sold at the same time). When the new owner of the car called a few months later saying he'd not received the new V5 I spoke to the DVLA about both vehicles and found out they'd not had either 'change of owner' slip - though they didn't mention anything about the motorbike SORN issue.

I wrote them a letter in August 2012 explaining the situation formally and stating the new owner's details, and had letters back from the DVLA confirming that I was no longer the owner of either vehicle in September 2012.

At this point there was still no mention of the SORN issue for the bike.

Then I get a letter 2 days ago saying the DVLA are preparing a court case against me.

PS- I regularly picked up the mail at my old address and had nothing from the DVLA at all, so they must either have not sent any, or sent them all in a very short period after the last time I collected my mail.

tommyjj

either way - all that above is pretty academic.

I accept that my misinterpretation of the rules resulted in my not renewing the SORN, and hence I accept that I am in the wrong.

However my question is more focused on the fact that the 'offence' is now not an offence at all, and will this affect my liability in any way?

Hintza

I believe the in budget SORN is to become indefinite. Which will be a win.

HappyMJ

I've had one of those SORN non renewal penalties before.

It's a civil penalty so you could ignore it.....it's not a fine....it's not been to court and will never to go to criminal court. It may go to a civil court but even they do not issue fines.....You can ignore it and hope they don't want to take you to court...which in my case they did not. It's a gamble. It's not an offence...not a criminal offence anyway.

They rarely do take people to court so will write many letters before giving up and moving on to other people.

tommyjj

-Hintza

that's kind of what I had assumed/hoped, but the debt recovery swines insist that the offence occurred before this change and is thus still valid, though I suppose they would say that wouldn't they.

I wonder whether it's worth spending that £80 on some legal advice instead?

- HappyMJ - under normal circumstances i'd jst have paid up, as I'm a but of a wimp and like to keep my nose clean. I wonder what the change in the law will do to the DVLA's resolve in following up these cases? Half of me things they'll just give up, but the other half wonders whether they'll get even more draconian about is as the law change basically deprives them of an income stream.

tommyjj

Since it's not yet been to court, could the court actually impose a penalty on me based on outdated legislation?

Even though the offense (offenCe or offenSe?, I forget) occurred when it was against the law to not renew, wouldn't the court case have to be heard under current laws? which don't make it an offence any more.

I'm not sure how a court would worl under those circumstances

arcon5

But worth noting if you are the exception and this goes to court, the amount owed will more than double with court costs.

Maybe make them an offer in F&F settlement.

But since you accept you made a mistake, what is the point in spending £80 to get legal advice when you could just use the £80 and have it all over and done with? Not sure what point you're trying to make by doing this

droopsnoot

Is it any test of the DVLA's resolve, though? If they've put it out to a debt collector, they won't be interested now and will leave it to the agency to deal with.

The idea behind making the declaration indefinite is to cut down on admin charges, so I infer that the number of people being fined for not renewing was negligible.

The issue is that you've changed address without updating the V5 on your vehicle, if you had done so you'd have received the reminders and you'd have known that SORN had to be renewed. I guess it's up to you whether you want to face up to that or try to get out of it. £80 is £80 at the end of the day, though it's only gone up to that because of time - I think it starts at £25 for failing to re-declare. Perhaps you could offer to pay that as a genuine mistake.

I'm not sure you get away with stuff just because the law changes between the time of the offence and the time they find you again. I think the key trouble is that it's now hit the debt collectors, and they will want paying regardless.

But come back and post the outcome, will be interesting to know.

tommyjj

- droopsnoot

I think the reasons for not renewing are irrelevant to my question about the impact of the law change. The DVLA is not aware that I changed my address without telling them, so it is not an issue. They are not chasing me for failing to report a change of address.

As I said above, whatever the reason for not renewing might be, I didn't renew it and as such are liable for prosecution under the old law. That law has now changed, and I am trying to find out whether that will affect the ability of the DVLA OR their debt collection people to take it to court, if it will not affect it, I will pay them their 80 smackers and apologise for being a very naughty boy.