Self Assessment for the grey area people?

Cheekotime59

Hi all!

Here's probably a really dumb question that probably has a really simple answer (that I will undoubtedly figure out the moment I hit "submit)

I've recently started working as a self employed "live in" carer... It's not very often I go home for a week or weekend as its more of being a live in friend than carer... But anyways...

To claim for things such as travel, food, stationery or whatever I can claim for... Can I actually claim for them

For example... "Business" Mileage and lunch allowances/things I need to buy .. I'm a permanent member of staff (so to speak), that works in a temporary place of work, but I live there so does this make me temporary or permanent?

I still have a "home" (several hour drive) although technically I "live" at work?

So things like the lunch allowance or mileage speaks about travelling away with work or for work, or while at a temporary place of work... Can I still claim for such, as pretty much the only mileage I do is for "work"

This thread is already far to long for a simple question haha!!!

Any input would be great peeps as the 83727483 tax guides on line only take into consideration your bog standard office job or travelling business man for expenses

Thanks!!

Dazed_and_confused

Cheekotime59 wrote: »

Hi all!

Here's probably a really dumb question that probably has a really simple answer (that I will undoubtedly figure out the moment I hit "submit)

I've recently started working as a self employed "live in" carer... It's not very often I go home for a week or weekend as its more of being a live in friend than carer... But anyways...

To claim for things such as travel, food, stationery or whatever I can claim for... Can I actually claim for them

For example... "Business" Mileage and lunch allowances/things I need to buy .. I'm a permanent member of staff (so to speak), that works in a temporary place of work, but I live there so does this make me temporary or permanent?

I still have a "home" (several hour drive) although technically I "live" at work?

So things like the lunch allowance or mileage speaks about travelling away with work or for work, or while at a temporary place of work... Can I still claim for such, as pretty much the only mileage I do is for "work"

This thread is already far to long for a simple question haha!!!

Any input would be great peeps as the 83727483 tax guides on line only take into consideration your bog standard office job or travelling business man for expenses

Thanks!!

Before anyone can offer much in the way of useful advice you really need to be sure what your correct status is, you can't be a
I've recently started working as a self employed "live in" carer and
I'm a permanent member of staff (so to speak),

Pennywise

I'd be very surprised if you are "self employed". It sounds more like you're an employee. Remember that it is HMRC who determine who is self employed and who is an employee according to their "employment status indicator".

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm#1

Being "self employed" doesn't mean simply employing yourself - it means being in business.

For example, to be genuinely self employed you'd have to meet some of these criteria:-

1. Provide your own equipment
2. Be able to sub-contract some of your work to other workers
3. Work for a number of different people
4. Correct unsatisfactory work at your own time and expense.

By contrast, the markers of being employed include:-

1. Your "employer" telling you what to do, when and how to do it
2. Paid on a time basis rather than results
3. Having to do the work yourself.

I really can't imagine a "live in carer" position that would have the attributes of the first list and none of the attributes of the second.

I think you're employed, and therefore, none of the costs you ask about would be claimable.

I'd also refer you to the following quote on another HMRC web page:-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/emp-in-home.htm

"if you take on someone who has replied to your advert, where they follow your directions and work only for you, they will almost certainly be your employee. "

xylophone

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/view.page?record=jriKalW18IQ
A telephone call should sort it out?

John_Pierpoint

You can never be an employee because you are almost certainly paid less than minimum wage for the hours you are on duty?
Most people in you position are forced work via an agency that rotates them through perhaps half a dozen clients. A bit like being a jobbing actor.
I guess if a group of you could set up a ring, you might be able to avoid having (say) 30% or more of what your client pays, being kept by the agency.

You client almost certainly does not want you as an employee - far too many responsibilities for someone needing care - so suggestions of shopping them to HMRC are not particularly helpful.

Pennywise

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

You can never be an employee because you are almost certainly paid less than minimum wage for the hours you are on duty?

The value of accommodation is included as part of minimum wages calculations, Also, there is the question of whether you are "working" all the time you are at the clients house. Very similar scenario here to live in nannies and au-pairs. Such people may be onsite most of the time, but won't be "working" all that time. So this statement is wrong.

And since when did rate of pay determine employment status?

John_Pierpoint

Hi Pennywise, how many of these people do you have on your books?

As I understand it these people are in effect day labourers, usually female very similar to "self employed" CIS workers on a building site, living in the site hostel, and wanting to be self employed. (They contribute no capital and probably no recognised relevant qualifications, so what does it say on their employment contract? Have they got a right to demand "overtime"? If the job breaks the working time directive what then? The job is often similar to being a security guard, but in stead of being a male sitting in the dark lonely reception of an empty office block for 12 hours, one is female and looking after the security of a fellow, though handicapped human, possibly watching the same TV programme.

As I said another analogy is an actor hired by the day as an extra (though they may well have the protection of a union negotiated deal).
If I was "enjoying" and intimate relationship with a client, I think both of us would prefer the freedom to terminate the arrangements without complex legal and fiscal wrangles, should the relationship not work out.

This appears to be the legal union type situation:
http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go-freelance-guide/care-workers-what-are-your-rights-at-work/

As far as my experience goes the need to work through an agency and possibly get involved with employment responsibilities are the major source of human unhappiness in such relationships - there was me thinking that the government was meant to try to maximise human happiness.

http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go-freelance-guide/care-workers-what-are-your-rights-at-work/