My father got an offer

highrisklowreturn

Basically the story goes that my dad, over 15 years, was averaging almost one loan a year with them, and last year I told him I was putting in a claim for ppi on his behalf. I did this initially in September last year and the bank, ulster bank, ignored the original ppi letter, but dealt with the issue of the RBS computer glitch also in the letter (confirming they got the letter).

2 months later I sent them another letter demanding SAR info for my father and this was ignored.

Finally at the start of January I took him into a branch, and they made us fill out a SAR template form, charging us a tenner for the priviledge.

Over 8 weeks later they still hadn't responded, so at the beginning of this month I went into a branch, and asked them what the hell they're playing at, and they took our details and wrote down a complaint under 'ppi mis-selling' to be posted off in their internal mail.

My dad got word today, offering him a settlement figure of £8,567 which he's delighted with, covrering around 13 different loans from the bank. Now I think he is an idiot generally, and particularly an idiot to want to accept it, but he was literally dancing jigs at the idea of getting all this "free" money as he sees it. I've told him to fight it, on the basis that the bank still has not completed the sar, ignored our original two items of correspondence, and in my view is offering a sum which I don't perceive is linked to compensation as such but rather a refund of insurance illegally collected.

I am in difficulty tho in trying to support this because, under my sar, I was looking for all details of loans, the amounts, interest, and the ppi total. With this info, I could break down and valorise the truth worth of his claim, and try to push for £12,000-15000 as a settlement.

Has anyone experience of this, and having fought on via the ombudsman, and won?

DevCoder

Take the money and run.

What was your reason for mis-selling? The fact you are relying on a SAR says a lot. You can fight it, go to FOS and lose everything.

The fact you think your dad is an "idiot generally" speaks volumes tbh.

PS : Your forum-name is very apt, as is given your posting history

highrisklowreturn

So I can get a cut and invest it in a house for him so his landlord can't kick him out when he sees the hovel he lives in.

dazza12

highrisklowreturn,

[text removed by MSE Forum Team]

The offer that your dad got, is it in writing? If not ask the bank to send the details of the offer and breakdown to him. You can't be expected to accept an offer if you don't know what it consists of.

If it's over 40 days since you made the SAR request, it's time to put in a further complaint. Search the forum / Google for a 'failed SAR' letter. In it list what you asked for and what they've failed to provide. Send this to the bank by recorded/special delivery (don't take it into a branch). Give the bank a reasonable amount of time, say 14 days to comply with your failed SAR letter. If this still doesn't result in a satisfactory response, complain to the information commissioner's office (see the stickies or Google). This also indicates to the bank that you're serious about your complaint - banks tend to sit up and notice if you give the impression that you're prepared to fight.

If the offer letter from the bank doesn't include the words 'without prejudice', this will help if you are to take the matter to the FOS. Once you get the offer letter, come back on here or anywhere you're going to get help. Bear in mind that taking it to the FOS may take a year or more, will your Dad be able to wait that long?

highrisklowreturn

Thanks for your help - I doubt he will wait that long. The thing is if I hadn't encouraged him he wouldn't even have known about it he's so blitzed normally, whereas now he thinks he's 'king for the day' by having a few quid coming.

They did give the offer in writing, with an acceptance slip. But the fact that they ignored the sar letters for so long indicates to me that they may have been holding back because of the size of the compensation. The other thing is, as it covered almost a dozen loans, they were exploiting the hell out of him, continuously, for years - and the loan amounts probably varied from 1-6k each time. The figure of around 8k also makes me think that they are refunding solely the ppi amount and perhaps not interest, or taking account of the opportunity cost of loss of the capital. As I said I can't break it down owing to them failing to comply with severl sar letters.

Miss_Poohs

My input for what it's worth, is you can't make an informed decision without being aware of the facts.

Personnally I'd want the ignored SARs addressed.

Good luck - no one should get shot for asking.

dazza12

It's very likely that the offer you've had is without any interest, hoping you'll go away.

With interest, the amount could be considerably more. Depending on the amounts and when the loans were taken out, you could be looking at double or more what the offer is (don't quote me, but as I said it depends on the figures).

Natwest/RBS/Ulster front loaded their loans. This in itself is a fairly strong mis-selling reason. This, and the fact that the bank have already made an offer puts you in a strong position if it does go to FOS (unless as mentioned, the offer is 'without prejudice' - means it can't be produced as evidence).

If you were to accept the offer, it could be a month or two before Ulster actually pay up. This may be worth explaining to your Dad - and if he's got to wait for that then it may be easier to convince him to fight this further.

Swiftkidd

There is definitely people on here with conflicting interests who provide bad advise and discouraging words. Worst of all they can easily be mistake for reputable forum posters due to their forum activity, post counts and thanked count.

Fortunately the thread creator seems to be able to identify them so no real harm is done except maybe for the forum visitors who may overlook or not realize.

I would definitely push for the S.A.R but may push your offer into re evaluation with long wait out delays etc. Also you can apply for a 30 day free credit check using 'Credit Expert' from experian note you cancellation is by phone only

The easiest and quickest way of cancelling the trial is to phone them up on 0844 3350550 (020 7298 3000, and ask for customer services can also work), select option 2 and quote your account reference.

This credit check should be able to provide an insight into your dad's credit history.. and can be used to cross refernce / double check when you receive your SAR. Honestly I'm not sure how helpful credit reports are but I will be signing up to the trail my self today to check my mums credit history

societys_child

2 months later I sent them another letter demanding SAR info for my father and this was ignored.

Finally at the start of January I took him into a branch, and they made us fill out a SAR template form, charging us a tenner for the priviledge.

Sounds like you didn't send £10 when you demanded the SAR? If so they can ignore it. Oh and demanding is not always to get the best way to go about things is it.

-taff

You have to give them £10 for a SAR. If you filled it in correctly, and asked for info about all accounts, you should have got this info back. They will often these days only give you the info regarding PPI, because that's what most people want a SAR for now.

If your SAR wasnt complied with in 40 days and they cashed your cheque or accepted your payment, you could have complained to the ICO who would have forced them to comply. You can still do this if you still haven't received all the information and they have cashed your cheque.

A SAR will only show what records they have left, not all records that ever existed, they only have to keep your info as long as necessary, or a recommended 6 years [by the FSA] , so if you no longer have documentation and they don't because they've destroyed it, your complaints regarding those loans are over.

If you consolidate a loan, you receive a part rebate of the PPI but not the interest applied to the original amount, therefore any redress on any particular loan that was consolidated is less.

You don't get compensation, you get , if your complaint is upheld, the PPI, plus associated interest [if it's a loan] plus 8% simple interest.

The bank are not offerring you much less because they're scared to pay out interest, your complaint is small change in the grand scheme of the amount paid back already.

Has your complaint been upheld or is it a goodwill getsure?


So, the tone of posting from people who have been given (sic) 'bad advise and discouraging words' is mainly because they don't want to hear what the bald truth is, and also come here without having done any research of any aspect of their complaint, with all sorts of expectations that aren't true.

dazza12

-taff wrote: »

A SAR will only show what records they have left, not all records that ever existed, they onyl have to keep your info as long as necessary, or a recommended 6 years, so if you no longer have documentation and they don't because they've destroyed it, your complaints regarding those loans are over.

...

The bank are not offerring you much less because they're scared to pay out interest, your complaint is small change in the grand scheme of the amount paid back already.

So, the tone of posting from people who have been given (sic) 'bad advise and discouraging words' is mainly because they don't want to hear what the bald truth is, and also come here without having done any research of any aspect of their complaint, with all sorts of expectations that aren't true.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence on all 3 popular forums to suggest some banks, in particular RBS and Lloyds TSB offer the premiums paid only in the first instance. It's only when the bank realise you won't be fobbed off that the offer will be constructed properly as per FOS guidelines. The offer made would potentially save them £5-10k if interest is taken into account.

Also, that old chestnut about a bank only having to keep records for 6 years. I'm sure you're aware that a bank is compelled to follow a number of regulations in regard to banking. In addition to DPA/FSA rules and guidelines, under the Money Laundering Regulations a financial institution has to keep details for 5 years after the transaction or business relationship ends. A transaction in this case would mean the loan. This means that if a loan finished in the last 5 years, the bank is compelled to retain the loan details (including agreement) until this time has passed. In practice, many banks work under the business relationship aspect, but some will also argue that the records are not in a 'relevant filing system' as regards the Data Protection Act.

In the case of RBS, the original poster may be lucky. In the last week I've been able to extract a copy of my original Natwest loan agreement from July 1990, another one from 1994 and a final one from 2002. The address to write to (no money needed, they just wrote back with them) is RBS, Customer Lending Centre, Floor 9, 1 Hardman Boulevard, Manchester, M3 3AQ.

Finally, you're saying the reason for a bad tone towards those asking for help is because people are coming on here without doing their research or don't want to hear the bald truth? I'm not sure what world you live on, but in many cases throughout MSE people are posting asking for help as part of their research. How are people going to know where to look or how to approach their complaint without asking the question? If it's a question that's been asked 100 times already, why not just direct them towards Martin's guide or the stickies? It's possible many first posters come here as the result of a Google search that's taken them directly to the forum, not via the MSE home page. Oh - and attacking grammar and spelling? Nice touch. Very mature.